Comments on: The Fallacy of Free Speech http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Tue, 6 Jan 2009 15:16:51 +0000 By: BlackWizardMagus http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-112 BlackWizardMagus Fri, 17 Feb 2006 00:53:06 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-112 Of course; they already are ragged on for being left-leaning; it wouldn't help them any if they came out sounding totally socialist. I know that opposing dogmatism isn't socialist, but the average viewer will feel that way. No one wants to lose the entire religious south or west by sounding pushy against religion. But honestly, I don't think it's the media's fault; it's people not caring. Most who aren't religious just ignore the religious arguments. Hopefully, this site and other like it can provide enough hard-hitting issues that people who visit it without much care go away determined to help, even if it's just a little. Of course; they already are ragged on for being left-leaning; it wouldn't help them any if they came out sounding totally socialist. I know that opposing dogmatism isn't socialist, but the average viewer will feel that way. No one wants to lose the entire religious south or west by sounding pushy against religion. But honestly, I don't think it's the media's fault; it's people not caring. Most who aren't religious just ignore the religious arguments. Hopefully, this site and other like it can provide enough hard-hitting issues that people who visit it without much care go away determined to help, even if it's just a little.

]]> By: andrea http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-111 andrea Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:25:07 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-111 I'll have to clarify and say that the media may be brave enough to ask the right questions but they aren't brave enough to pursue the evasions or ask the right follow-up questions. It's pretty much why I take all news with a grain of salt and end up believing "The Daily Show" more than them. I'll have to clarify and say that the media may be brave enough to ask the right questions but they aren't brave enough to pursue the evasions or ask the right follow-up questions. It's pretty much why I take all news with a grain of salt and end up believing "The Daily Show" more than them.

]]> By: BlackWizardMagus http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-110 BlackWizardMagus Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:38:49 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-110 I'm not sure how the media isn't brave enough to ask the tough questions; they are the diametric opposites of fundamentalists, and generally slam on the right all day long. Pope Bush knows all about this, no? But yeah, this is the conundrum that occurs when governments pay for schooling; it becomes a huge quagmire over what's suppressing free religion or free speech and allows all sides to abuse the Constitution to no end. I'd privatize all schools completely, but I know I won't have my way, so I'll argue against this case. And I do wish the right would learn that the Constitution is supposed to limit the government in social issues, they never get that. We now must worry with Alito and Roberts on the court... I'm not sure how the media isn't brave enough to ask the tough questions; they are the diametric opposites of fundamentalists, and generally slam on the right all day long. Pope Bush knows all about this, no? But yeah, this is the conundrum that occurs when governments pay for schooling; it becomes a huge quagmire over what's suppressing free religion or free speech and allows all sides to abuse the Constitution to no end. I'd privatize all schools completely, but I know I won't have my way, so I'll argue against this case. And I do wish the right would learn that the Constitution is supposed to limit the government in social issues, they never get that. We now must worry with Alito and Roberts on the court...

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-109 Ebonmuse Thu, 16 Feb 2006 00:08:46 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-109 <blockquote>The Constitution is inviolate (as Justice Scalia has claimed, even the slavery parts evidently), unless we want it changed of course.</blockquote> I only wish they were actually changing it to get what they want. As programs such as warrantless wiretapping and the indefinite and arbitrary detention of American citizens show, Bush and his cronies evidently feel free to simply ignore the Constitution whenever they consider it inconvenient.

The Constitution is inviolate (as Justice Scalia has claimed, even the slavery parts evidently), unless we want it changed of course.

I only wish they were actually changing it to get what they want. As programs such as warrantless wiretapping and the indefinite and arbitrary detention of American citizens show, Bush and his cronies evidently feel free to simply ignore the Constitution whenever they consider it inconvenient.

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-108 Ebonmuse Thu, 16 Feb 2006 00:04:29 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-108 Indeed so, Dominic, and we're already seeing things like that. <a href="http://loom.corante.com/archives/2005/10/10/florida_where_the_living_is_contradictory.php" rel="nofollow">Carl Zimmer</a> wrote a while back about how Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida, convinced a major biomedical research institute, the Scripps Research Institute, to build a campus in his state - and almost simultaneously, hired a creationist hack as state education chancellor. The scientists at Scripps are explicit that their work depends on evolution. And let's not forget the American scientists who are <a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.08/singapore.html" rel="nofollow">moving to Singapore</a> to do their job because there are fewer restrictions on stem-cell research there than there are here. Indeed so, Dominic, and we're already seeing things like that. Carl Zimmer wrote a while back about how Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida, convinced a major biomedical research institute, the Scripps Research Institute, to build a campus in his state - and almost simultaneously, hired a creationist hack as state education chancellor. The scientists at Scripps are explicit that their work depends on evolution.

And let's not forget the American scientists who are moving to Singapore to do their job because there are fewer restrictions on stem-cell research there than there are here.

]]> By: Dominic Self http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-107 Dominic Self Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:04:49 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-107 I think it's worth making the economic argument as well, to gain support from those who may traditionally (and bizarrely) ally themselves with the fundamentalists. Quite apart from moral standards of education, how on earth is the future generation of American scientists going to compete with their European, Chinese or Indian peers (to name a few examples) if they are given a handicapped science education? It's all very well if you believe the world was created in 6 days, but not believing in evolution is rather going to hinder efforts in scientific research and innovation which will mean American *loses out* to other countries. Not great news for the universities and companies which depend on being a centres of excellence not just in America, but in the world. I think it's worth making the economic argument as well, to gain support from those who may traditionally (and bizarrely) ally themselves with the fundamentalists. Quite apart from moral standards of education, how on earth is the future generation of American scientists going to compete with their European, Chinese or Indian peers (to name a few examples) if they are given a handicapped science education?

It's all very well if you believe the world was created in 6 days, but not believing in evolution is rather going to hinder efforts in scientific research and innovation which will mean American *loses out* to other countries. Not great news for the universities and companies which depend on being a centres of excellence not just in America, but in the world.

]]> By: andrea http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-106 andrea Wed, 15 Feb 2006 19:58:12 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/fallacy-of-free-speech.html#comment-106 The new tactic that has been described is the usual situational ethics of many Christians. Free speech is bad unless it’s for what we want. Do as we say and believe as we believe. As for us, if it’s inconvenient, well, we’ll do what we want. The Constitution is inviolate (as Justice Scalia has claimed, even the slavery parts evidently), unless we want it changed of course. Then, well, amend the damn thing until it resembles the Ten Commandments. It is a true pity that many of the media aren’t brave enough to ask the tough questions. So, take up the torch. Write letters to the editor of your local papers. Show the wolf in sheep’s clothing for what it is. I only wish I had the nerve to insist that I be allowed to speak at a church that was so backward. It’s only “fair”, you know. The new tactic that has been described is the usual situational ethics of many Christians. Free speech is bad unless it’s for what we want. Do as we say and believe as we believe. As for us, if it’s inconvenient, well, we’ll do what we want. The Constitution is inviolate (as Justice Scalia has claimed, even the slavery parts evidently), unless we want it changed of course. Then, well, amend the damn thing until it resembles the Ten Commandments.

It is a true pity that many of the media aren’t brave enough to ask the tough questions. So, take up the torch. Write letters to the editor of your local papers. Show the wolf in sheep’s clothing for what it is.

I only wish I had the nerve to insist that I be allowed to speak at a church that was so backward. It’s only “fair”, you know.

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