And even if it did posses some sort of intelligence, enough to be capable of creating "things" to fulfill certain purposes, then it would also be able to understand itself and it wouldn't need us, would it?

I'm glad you liked my music. Is there any website or can you send me some MP3's so I can hear some of your guitar playing. I had a Duo with a guitar player in So. California several years ago. We did pretty good together. We played on a cruise for a while and sailed through the Panama Canel and all around the Caribian Islands. Lately I've thought of teaming up with a guitar player again for a Duo. Are you a full time musician. I've been playing music all my life, never had a day job and it has been great. Please feel free to email me like you said. We can talk some more. You asked if I was an atheist because it was had to tell from my comments. Yeah I am an atheist. I kind of got off track on this blog. There are a couple other atheist sites I go to regularly (I ran across this one by chance). One of the sites has a atheist magazine. I sent them some quotes and short essays recently and they are going to publish them in the magazine. Hey, email me from the soundclick website and we can talk more.

I clicked on OMGF and it took me to your website. It appeared to me that you seem to belittle others that don't think as you do but a lot of atheists do that.

Where have I belittled others? Please provide evidence, as well as evidence that "a lot of atheists do that [belittle others]." I doubt that you will be able to.

When you first asked me for evidence I thought that was a valid and welcome question.

It still is and should be.

I tried to give an analogy of a thought on the elements and stated that I had many other thoughts that pointed to the Universe existing for life.

But no evidence. Why did you not provide any evidence if you thought my request was "valid and welcome?"

You totally missed my point and said something about ancient superstitution.

Whether that was your point or not, you presented - as evidence - a situation where some person from the past would agree with you that things looked designed. So what? Is that not an argument from tradition, especially the traditions of superstition?

You then said that I claimed to have other points but didn't state them and that you have heard that excuse before. My point here is that your whole attitude in your responce was really just rude.

You did claim to have lots of evidence and when asked for it, you demurred. Why?

Your attitude pulled us from the subject I attempted to discuss and now I realize I have said things I wish I never said.

Are you blaming me for what you said?

I would like to apologize to you because I ended up saying things to you that were rude, not right and not true.

Apology accepted, but completely unnecessary. I'm not taking things personally.

I am not afraid to say to someone, that's a good point. I am not afraid to change my whole opinion about something if a valid argument suggest I do so.

Are my arguments invalid if they offend you?

That's the point, we never said anything about the subject I brought up.

Because you aren't presenting evidence for your position. You still aren't.

Your comments to me were more of a put down than polite inquisitive questioning.

If pointing out that you aren't presenting evidence is a putdown, then guilty as charged. Whenever someone challenges your assertions, are you similarly offended?

I couldn't even get you to say, ehh, maybe it's interesting. All you would say is I was showing my wonderful humility again.

Are you looking to have a conversation/discussion, to have your ideas challenged, or to simply have people stroke your ego?

was trying to convince myself that at least you could make a fair comment.

Ah, so I'm not being fair unless I tell you how great your thoughts are? Nice.

I am sorry to say this but it is very hard for me to imagine you ever saying, "That's a good point."

Make a good point and you'll hear it. Show me the evidence that you say you have tons of. All I've seen so far from you is grandiose claims and nothing to back them up, then a bunch of lamenting that fact that I don't think your claims are special.

I am sorry you never got to hear my reasoning. I might have been able to strengthen and refine them if we had discussed them.

No you're not, because you wouldn't get the validation that you're looking for from me because I'm not swallowing your mumbo jumbo uncritically. If you want to get somewhere with me (and most other people on this blog if I can speak for them) then you've got to back up your arguments with substance; something you've been unwilling and/or unable to do.

I don't think we should discuss anything anymore and this will be my last comment. I am not afraid to say to someone, that's a good point. I am not afraid to change my whole opinion about something if a valid argument suggest I do so. I am not saying this because I think I have said anything extraordinary. That's the point, we never said anything about the subject I brought up. Your comments to me were more of a put down than polite inquisitive questioning. I even tried to say of all the things I said at least this is a meaningful statement and that is referring to something that even an editor of an atheist magazine recently said to me, "that is very good." I couldn't even get you to say, ehh, maybe it's interesting. All you would say is I was showing my wonderful humility again. I was trying to convince myself that at least you could make a fair comment. I am sorry to say this but it is very hard for me to imagine you ever saying, "That's a good point."

I am sorry you never got to hear my reasoning. I might have been able to strengthen and refine them if we had discussed them.

Sincerely,

Jerry

My original statement, "Humans are the Universe understanding itself," is very profound.

I disagree, but it's very humble of you to claim how great your views are.

To me it sums up mankinds religious quest.

No, mankinds religious quest is for us to explain the universe to ourselves. Unfortunately, religious thought has made zero progress on this score. Science, however, has made significant progress, which is why people (like you) try to co-opt science as somehow explaining your religious thoughts.

It is an original statement that I thought of in the 1960's.

You may have come up with this specific statement, but I fail to see how it differs from many other religious thoughts throughout the years. We've been trying to figure out why we are here for thousands of years.

I can now see by your answers that you know nothing about the elements or astronomy.

What specifically did I say that leads you to that conclusion? The only think I can see is that I disagreed with your unsupported assertions that the universe is here to create us. From this end, it's you who is talking about things which you don't understand, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...just show me.

Especially the carbon atom and how it appears to be designed to create life (among other things).

Only to those who already have a pre-disposed notion that life isn't an accident. Perhaps you are misinterpreting Fred Hoyle's discovery of Carbon 14?

You chose to ignore my statement (and a meaningful one) that looking inward toward the atom shows that humanity (and all of life) not as a meaningless spec but something so majestic, unbelievably gigantic and complex that only the mysteries of the Universe could create it.

There you go again with that wonderful humility...Anyway, don't jump to conclusions about my position without understanding it. What I've said is that the universe is under to obligation to us, either to create us or sustain us.

We never did get into all the scientific discoveries that suggest the Universe exists to create life (if one chooses to use them for that purpose). I would ask you, sir. Why would the Universe exist without life? What would be the purpose?

You are begging the question. There is no intrinsic need that there be a purpose.

You want a simple fact of evidence that the Universe exists to have life. Something that you can prove and see with your own eyes. Here it is.

The Universe exists and it has created life.

I rest my case.

So, we are here on purpose because we are here? C'mon. Look, I'm not trying to be a jackass here, I just want some real evidence for your position. If you are going to present "profound" thoughts, I'd like for you to actually give some evidence for your position. Do you understand why this does not constitute evidence? It is, once again, begging the question.

I can see by your answers that you totaly missed the point that I was trying to make. All your stated answers were to a wrong interpretation of my meaning. My original statement, "Humans are the Universe understanding itself," is very profound. Did you think about that statement? Over the years I have always received profound complements for it. To me it sums up mankinds religious quest. It is an original statement that I thought of in the 1960's. I have been a musician all my life and I was playing in a club in Manhatten Beach California when I had this thought based upon years of reading science manuals and studying astronomy and music in college. I am 73, the same age as Carl Sagan would have been, and who incedently made a similar statement in the 1980's. The idea that the Universe exists for life is not some off the wall idea but is often discussed in the scientific world. I can now see by your answers that you know nothing about the elements or astronomy. I am sure you know the names of a few elements but are not aware of the structure and design of them. I suggest you read "At The Heart if the Web" by George Seielstad (The Inevitable Genesis of Life) to get an understanding of the chemestry of the elements and how the neutrons, electrons etc. connect the elements to become things. Especially the carbon atom and how it appears to be designed to create life (among other things).

You have taken the road so many take. Humanity is this meaningless speck in the cosmos. You chose to ignore my statement (and a meaningful one) that looking inward toward the atom shows that humanity (and all of life) not as a meaningless spec but something so majestic, unbelievably gigantic and complex that only the mysteries of the Universe could create it.

We never did get into all the scientific discoveries that suggest the Universe exists to create life (if one chooses to use them for that purpose). I would ask you, sir. Why would the Universe exist without life? What would be the purpose?

You want a simple fact of evidence that the Universe exists to have life. Something that you can prove and see with your own eyes. Here it is.

The Universe exists and it has created life.

I rest my case.

Hey, if you want to hear some of my music go to http://www.soundclick.com/jerryfeheley

Some of the elements are of course needed to make life and then human life can use the elements for endless wonders. This is an interesting thing the Universe does.

Jerry, this is usually explained with reference to the "anthropic principle or the old story about the puddle that is surprised to find it lives in a hole exactly the right shape. One theory states that at the big bang or whatever an all but infinite number of universes were created. We, unsurprisingly occupy one that allows for the existance of intelligent life, the vast majority may well be lifeless, lack all of the elements we are familiar with or may have different but equally complex internal structures.

It was nice to see comments but I was sad to see that they were addressing me with what appeared to be an attitude.

I admit to a little bit of snark, but c'mon. Did you really think that was evidence for your position? That's how you presented it.

This is an interesting thing the Universe does.

And it lends no evidence to the idea that we are here on purpose or that any god exists.

The other side of this question is could it be that life was meant to be. Is there any evidence that might point in that direction.

At this point, no, there is no evidence unless one makes invalid assumptions.

If life is just an accident it would suggest to me a disrespect to the Universe.

The universe is not a sentient being, so it's pretty hard to disrespect it.

A Universe without life would be a colossal waste. A Universe with human life would be much better.

Aside from the anthropomorphic leanings, the universe cares not one whit whether humans are here or not.

Without humans there would be no awareness of stars, galaxies, all the wonders of the Universe, a sunset, a cute kitty.. humans give meaning to everything.

No, we don't. We ascribe our own meaning to things. Why humans? Why not some other creature?

I am not trying to say this is the truth but simply saying that is it possible for the Universe in all its wonders to possess rules to create life and ultimately human life to know itself.

Yes, it is possible, but there's no evidence for it. I could postulate all kinds of things that may sound interesting, but in the absence of evidence, they are all just empty.

I see lots of things that point in that direction. I simply brought one up that maybe does.

No, you didn't.

Why is it that so many atheists shun organized religion (as I also have done) and then be so negative about everything.

Evidence pls? Most atheists I know are not negative about everything. This is simply a characterization of atheists, that we must be nihilistic and full of hate, etc.

I am just simple proposing an interesting positive thought with hopes of thoughtful respectful comments with constructive opinions either for or against.

Honestly, I don't find your thought interesting at all...no offense. It's been said and done a million times already; you are certainly not the first. People have been postulating that humans were inevitable products of the universe for thousands of years, yet none of them have ever brought any sort of evidence to back up their claims. What would be interesting is if you actually presented some evidence.

Can there be any evidence to show this or point in that direction?

I'm not aware of any. Earlier, you sounded as if you had some and now it sounds as if you are asking if there is any?