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	<title>Comments on: Out of Respect</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed,  7 Jan 2009 01:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: Adele</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-40698</link>
		<dc:creator>Adele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-40698</guid>
		<description>Once again, Adam, you are perfectly on.

While on one hand I feel that we shouldn't be fussed about the prayer as we know it does absolutely nothing, I am highly opposed to the "untouchable" position religion enjoys in society.  Religious people can say and do almost anything and get away with it so long as they do or say it in the name of their religion.

Sean:
I would personally just go to church with your wife.  As far as you are concerned - I believe, perhaps I am mistaken, feel free to correct me - church is a meaningless ritual.  If your wife is not, as you say, interested in converting you, then see it exactly as she does: as a social gathering.  I find it fascinating to go to church - when I have time I do go because it is vastly amusing to watch.  Televangelists are the same way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, Adam, you are perfectly on.</p>
<p>While on one hand I feel that we shouldn't be fussed about the prayer as we know it does absolutely nothing, I am highly opposed to the "untouchable" position religion enjoys in society.  Religious people can say and do almost anything and get away with it so long as they do or say it in the name of their religion.</p>
<p>Sean:<br />
I would personally just go to church with your wife.  As far as you are concerned - I believe, perhaps I am mistaken, feel free to correct me - church is a meaningless ritual.  If your wife is not, as you say, interested in converting you, then see it exactly as she does: as a social gathering.  I find it fascinating to go to church - when I have time I do go because it is vastly amusing to watch.  Televangelists are the same way.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-40647</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-40647</guid>
		<description>Very interesting question.
I have a some what more complicated situation.

I am an Atheist, my wife is a Christian.
Her family are also theist and pray before meal time, I have no issue with this as t takes nothing to accommodate there views.
I love my wife and support her, she has recently asked me to go to church. 

Was wondering if others have faced religious spouses?

I should note she does not want to convert me or anything like that but wants to treat it as a social gathering to make friends as we are new in town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting question.<br />
I have a some what more complicated situation.</p>
<p>I am an Atheist, my wife is a Christian.<br />
Her family are also theist and pray before meal time, I have no issue with this as t takes nothing to accommodate there views.<br />
I love my wife and support her, she has recently asked me to go to church. </p>
<p>Was wondering if others have faced religious spouses?</p>
<p>I should note she does not want to convert me or anything like that but wants to treat it as a social gathering to make friends as we are new in town.</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn Rhapsody</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-26457</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn Rhapsody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-26457</guid>
		<description>Interesting article, Adam; I particularly find the one-way expectation of pre-meal prayer an interesting and even arrogant part of modern religion.

I've dined at few places where such a custom takes place, but one that particularly sticks out in my memory is my great aunt's house. As a young, blooming atheist (around twelve years old) I had decided for the first time in my life that I would sit aside quietly rather than "politely" close my eyes and clasp my hands in shallow prayer. My family's reactions weren't particularly warm: my great aunt lookde tragically offended, and I was shut in my room by my mother until I agreed to "apologise for my rudeness" (I gave in about five minutes later).

While I accept that my parents weren't so much worried about my newfound loss of faith than the effect such a sight might have on my fragile aunt, it reveals an astounding double standard. I'm not so sure it would be acceptable if I shut my Christian grandson in his room until he agreed to apologise for rudely saying a quiet prayer to himself at dinner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article, Adam; I particularly find the one-way expectation of pre-meal prayer an interesting and even arrogant part of modern religion.</p>
<p>I've dined at few places where such a custom takes place, but one that particularly sticks out in my memory is my great aunt's house. As a young, blooming atheist (around twelve years old) I had decided for the first time in my life that I would sit aside quietly rather than "politely" close my eyes and clasp my hands in shallow prayer. My family's reactions weren't particularly warm: my great aunt lookde tragically offended, and I was shut in my room by my mother until I agreed to "apologise for my rudeness" (I gave in about five minutes later).</p>
<p>While I accept that my parents weren't so much worried about my newfound loss of faith than the effect such a sight might have on my fragile aunt, it reveals an astounding double standard. I'm not so sure it would be acceptable if I shut my Christian grandson in his room until he agreed to apologise for rudely saying a quiet prayer to himself at dinner.</p>
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		<title>By: Nurse Ingrid</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-26390</link>
		<dc:creator>Nurse Ingrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-26390</guid>
		<description>To those of you who are trying to decide whether to take young children to church, I would say DON'T. I was raised by agnostic/atheist parents but was sometimes dragged to church by my fundamentalist grandparents,who would seize any opportunity to try to "save" me. It really messed me up, hearing all that stuff about hellfire and damnation when I was so young. And it was very confusing, because I knew my parents didn't believe in that stuff, but my grandparents did, and weren't adults supposed to know everything? Eventually I thought it all through for myself, and became the happy atheist I am today, but it took a LONG time to shake off the fear of hell that was instilled in me at such an impressionable age. I'm not sure I'll ever be completely free of it.

As for the nosy grandmother who keeps pestering about more kids, I suggest the Miss Manners technique: "That's very personal, and we prefer not to discuss it." Keep your voice calm. And if she persists? "That's very personal, and we prefer not to discuss it." Repeat as needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To those of you who are trying to decide whether to take young children to church, I would say DON'T. I was raised by agnostic/atheist parents but was sometimes dragged to church by my fundamentalist grandparents,who would seize any opportunity to try to "save" me. It really messed me up, hearing all that stuff about hellfire and damnation when I was so young. And it was very confusing, because I knew my parents didn't believe in that stuff, but my grandparents did, and weren't adults supposed to know everything? Eventually I thought it all through for myself, and became the happy atheist I am today, but it took a LONG time to shake off the fear of hell that was instilled in me at such an impressionable age. I'm not sure I'll ever be completely free of it.</p>
<p>As for the nosy grandmother who keeps pestering about more kids, I suggest the Miss Manners technique: "That's very personal, and we prefer not to discuss it." Keep your voice calm. And if she persists? "That's very personal, and we prefer not to discuss it." Repeat as needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-25944</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-25944</guid>
		<description>While I appreciate the irony, most of our extended family is all to willing to believe absolutely anything negative they hear about me, and I doubt many of them have ever actually read the Bible, so the intended irony will likely be lost on them (if there's one thing I've learned, too, it's that there is no statement or phrasing so obviously facetious that at least a few people who, being smarter than rocks in other matters, ought to know better, will not interpret it as a fully earnest expression of one's actual opinion or intent...though I suppose that *could* just apply to high school students and faculty).

(It's been a while; apparently my messages were still signed as Azkyroth at that point).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I appreciate the irony, most of our extended family is all to willing to believe absolutely anything negative they hear about me, and I doubt many of them have ever actually read the Bible, so the intended irony will likely be lost on them (if there's one thing I've learned, too, it's that there is no statement or phrasing so obviously facetious that at least a few people who, being smarter than rocks in other matters, ought to know better, will not interpret it as a fully earnest expression of one's actual opinion or intent...though I suppose that *could* just apply to high school students and faculty).</p>
<p>(It's been a while; apparently my messages were still signed as Azkyroth at that point).</p>
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		<title>By: Vjatcheslav</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-25943</link>
		<dc:creator>Vjatcheslav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 08:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-25943</guid>
		<description>Why wouldn't you quote from 2 Timotheüs (at least, the letter where it is said that women have to stay silent) to your grandmother when she says you should have another child?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why wouldn't you quote from 2 Timotheüs (at least, the letter where it is said that women have to stay silent) to your grandmother when she says you should have another child?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-565</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-565</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Or, even better: give an atheist benediction by reading from Robert Ingersoll or Dan Barker as the food is served!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or thank the wise and powerful FSM for a lovely meal of His pasta. RAmen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Or, even better: give an atheist benediction by reading from Robert Ingersoll or Dan Barker as the food is served!</p></blockquote>
<p>Or thank the wise and powerful FSM for a lovely meal of His pasta. RAmen.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-542</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-542</guid>
		<description>These error messages people are getting when trying to post comments are of concern to me. I haven't experienced this myself, but if anyone continues to encounter problems, please e-mail me a screenshot of the error you're getting so I'll have something to take to tech support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These error messages people are getting when trying to post comments are of concern to me. I haven't experienced this myself, but if anyone continues to encounter problems, please e-mail me a screenshot of the error you're getting so I'll have something to take to tech support.</p>
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		<title>By: Quath</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator>Quath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 19:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-540</guid>
		<description>My wife's family is pretty agnostic/atheist.  So family dinners with them is not a big issue.  Our nephew seems to be dabbling with religion now, but he is not the type to be confrontational about it (yet).

My side of the family is mostly religious (though not too huge on the rituals).  But when they visited me, they didn't try to do a prayer.  

I have been to events where they liked to hold hands to pray.  I hold hands but don't bow my head out of slight protest.  (I like the idea of coming together to work on problems, but don't like it that it is put off on a higher being to make it so.)

I have two step-kids.  Luckily, my wife is atheist, but their father is Christian and grandparents are Buddhists.  They seem to like atheism so far (ages 10 and 12).  But we never try to push it on them.  We just talk about the different religions and we tie it back to reality on occasion.

For awhile they believed in Jesus, Buddha and the Easter Bunny.  When the youngest (at age 8) tried to explain Easter, I understood how confused she was.  She believed that Jesus died on the cross and three days later, he rose from the dead as the Easter Bunny.  It made more sense, so I didn't try to correct her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife's family is pretty agnostic/atheist.  So family dinners with them is not a big issue.  Our nephew seems to be dabbling with religion now, but he is not the type to be confrontational about it (yet).</p>
<p>My side of the family is mostly religious (though not too huge on the rituals).  But when they visited me, they didn't try to do a prayer.  </p>
<p>I have been to events where they liked to hold hands to pray.  I hold hands but don't bow my head out of slight protest.  (I like the idea of coming together to work on problems, but don't like it that it is put off on a higher being to make it so.)</p>
<p>I have two step-kids.  Luckily, my wife is atheist, but their father is Christian and grandparents are Buddhists.  They seem to like atheism so far (ages 10 and 12).  But we never try to push it on them.  We just talk about the different religions and we tie it back to reality on occasion.</p>
<p>For awhile they believed in Jesus, Buddha and the Easter Bunny.  When the youngest (at age 8) tried to explain Easter, I understood how confused she was.  She believed that Jesus died on the cross and three days later, he rose from the dead as the Easter Bunny.  It made more sense, so I didn't try to correct her.</p>
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		<title>By: Archi Medez</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-536</link>
		<dc:creator>Archi Medez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/out-of-respect.html#comment-536</guid>
		<description>My comments just got deleted "page not available". Oh well, I should've saved them.

Anyway, the main points of that post, the greatest post in the history of mankind, which would have solved all of our problems...well, okay, it wasn't that good.

My main points:

1. Much of what has been said above sounds reasonable to me, but seems slightly more inhibited than my approach. I would focus on asking questions, introducing what Sam Harris calls "conversational pressure." Re the prayer group example, I'd definitley comment on it and ask questions in that situation. I wouldn't be terribly upset, but their (the prayer group's behaviour) is sufficently overt and over-the-top that it almost seems inappropriate to fail to address/investigate it. Put the spotlight on it.

2. We should pick our battles. There's issues over table manners, and then there are people today being killed because they apostatize from or criticize a religion or run afoul of some dictator. This is not to trivialize the table manners example--we should deal with these everyday examples as they arise; every local action toward the acceptance of atheism helps the larger global cause. But we need to be careful in picking our battles; we should do so strategically with the larger goal in mind. My goal, BTW, is not to wipe out religious belief, but rather to reduce its tyrannical role, such that it is merely a personal matter and not a tool of political, social, economic, and militaristic power; and not an unnecessary impediment to freedom, safety, and health throughout the world.

(Steps down from soap box here)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My comments just got deleted "page not available". Oh well, I should've saved them.</p>
<p>Anyway, the main points of that post, the greatest post in the history of mankind, which would have solved all of our problems...well, okay, it wasn't that good.</p>
<p>My main points:</p>
<p>1. Much of what has been said above sounds reasonable to me, but seems slightly more inhibited than my approach. I would focus on asking questions, introducing what Sam Harris calls "conversational pressure." Re the prayer group example, I'd definitley comment on it and ask questions in that situation. I wouldn't be terribly upset, but their (the prayer group's behaviour) is sufficently overt and over-the-top that it almost seems inappropriate to fail to address/investigate it. Put the spotlight on it.</p>
<p>2. We should pick our battles. There's issues over table manners, and then there are people today being killed because they apostatize from or criticize a religion or run afoul of some dictator. This is not to trivialize the table manners example--we should deal with these everyday examples as they arise; every local action toward the acceptance of atheism helps the larger global cause. But we need to be careful in picking our battles; we should do so strategically with the larger goal in mind. My goal, BTW, is not to wipe out religious belief, but rather to reduce its tyrannical role, such that it is merely a personal matter and not a tool of political, social, economic, and militaristic power; and not an unnecessary impediment to freedom, safety, and health throughout the world.</p>
<p>(Steps down from soap box here)</p>
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