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	<title>Comments on: Loose Marbles I: Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue,  6 Jan 2009 14:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: Jonathan Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3944</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jul 2006 00:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3944</guid>
		<description>The mention of no clear motive as the reason for dismissing the theory enhances the effectiveness of the conspiracy. Someone here said something like: Why would there be a white streak across the lawn if a cruise missle was used? They even brought up Kennedy and pointed out how much easier it would have been to just poision him. Well, I will tell you why this type of observation is stupid. The motive for killing kennedy was as much to show it could be done as it was to get rid of him. So, maybe that streak was to scare the hell out of everyone that did not already know about it. Like the Zapruder film scared the hell out of people.

There is no conspiracy. PERIOD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mention of no clear motive as the reason for dismissing the theory enhances the effectiveness of the conspiracy. Someone here said something like: Why would there be a white streak across the lawn if a cruise missle was used? They even brought up Kennedy and pointed out how much easier it would have been to just poision him. Well, I will tell you why this type of observation is stupid. The motive for killing kennedy was as much to show it could be done as it was to get rid of him. So, maybe that streak was to scare the hell out of everyone that did not already know about it. Like the Zapruder film scared the hell out of people.</p>
<p>There is no conspiracy. PERIOD.</p>
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		<title>By: Montu</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3603</link>
		<dc:creator>Montu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jun 2006 04:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3603</guid>
		<description>Adam, as I've stated before in a different part of this series, there are still a lot of questions that surround 9/11 that haven't been answered which bring the official story into doubt.  I'm presenting these not as an argument against your stated position because I don't have a counter argument for it, I'm simply going to list some questions that I've had that haven't been answered sufficiently by the official 9/11 story (and I noticed that you're reading the Commission Report, so perhaps you found some of the answers in there).

1) Flight 77 was a large passenger plane.  According to Boeing, a 757 has between 200 and 243 seats depending if it's a 757-200 or 757-300, and it would have been carrying a good amount of luggage.  Sense the photos of the Pentagon crash clearly show office furniture in the building, it's safe to say that the fire wasn't hot enough to incinerate all the furniture within close distance of the plane.  I would then assume that it would be safe to say that it wasn't hot enough to completely vaporize all 200-243 seats in the plane.  This is made even more apparent by the fact that the fireball from the crash shot out from the hole created by the jet backwards, while the seats would have remained in a forward motion scattering into the building.  Why have we not seen what appears to be a large number of passenger airliner seats in the photos taken of the pentagon?  Also, why are there no photos of luggage?  200-243 seats is a lot to just disappear into kerosene smoke, especially when wood furniture can be seen to be unburnt.

2) Why didn't the Pentagon scramble jets to intersect the two hijacked flights?  And then, after these planes hit WTC1&#38;2, why did they still not send jets to attack flight 77 and 93 when it was clear at that point that they were hostile and would probably be used as weapons?

3) The Pentagon got attacked?  The Pentagon went completely unprotected in DC airspace, probably the most guarded airspace known to man.  Even if they didn't have the fighter jets to shoot the plane down are we really to assume that THE PENTAGON doesn't have other forms of defense that, when necessary, could have prevented a plane from crashing into it?  Or at least evacuate people, especially after two planes have been used as weapons in a terrorist attack not moments earlier (yes, that last bit was an exaggeration because off the top of my head I don't remember what the actual time difference was, and I'm feeling too lazy to find out.  Sorry.)?

These are just a couple of questions that I have about this subject.  Again, I'm simply asking, not presenting an argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, as I've stated before in a different part of this series, there are still a lot of questions that surround 9/11 that haven't been answered which bring the official story into doubt.  I'm presenting these not as an argument against your stated position because I don't have a counter argument for it, I'm simply going to list some questions that I've had that haven't been answered sufficiently by the official 9/11 story (and I noticed that you're reading the Commission Report, so perhaps you found some of the answers in there).</p>
<p>1) Flight 77 was a large passenger plane.  According to Boeing, a 757 has between 200 and 243 seats depending if it's a 757-200 or 757-300, and it would have been carrying a good amount of luggage.  Sense the photos of the Pentagon crash clearly show office furniture in the building, it's safe to say that the fire wasn't hot enough to incinerate all the furniture within close distance of the plane.  I would then assume that it would be safe to say that it wasn't hot enough to completely vaporize all 200-243 seats in the plane.  This is made even more apparent by the fact that the fireball from the crash shot out from the hole created by the jet backwards, while the seats would have remained in a forward motion scattering into the building.  Why have we not seen what appears to be a large number of passenger airliner seats in the photos taken of the pentagon?  Also, why are there no photos of luggage?  200-243 seats is a lot to just disappear into kerosene smoke, especially when wood furniture can be seen to be unburnt.</p>
<p>2) Why didn't the Pentagon scramble jets to intersect the two hijacked flights?  And then, after these planes hit WTC1&amp;2, why did they still not send jets to attack flight 77 and 93 when it was clear at that point that they were hostile and would probably be used as weapons?</p>
<p>3) The Pentagon got attacked?  The Pentagon went completely unprotected in DC airspace, probably the most guarded airspace known to man.  Even if they didn't have the fighter jets to shoot the plane down are we really to assume that THE PENTAGON doesn't have other forms of defense that, when necessary, could have prevented a plane from crashing into it?  Or at least evacuate people, especially after two planes have been used as weapons in a terrorist attack not moments earlier (yes, that last bit was an exaggeration because off the top of my head I don't remember what the actual time difference was, and I'm feeling too lazy to find out.  Sorry.)?</p>
<p>These are just a couple of questions that I have about this subject.  Again, I'm simply asking, not presenting an argument.</p>
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		<title>By: NJ Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3564</link>
		<dc:creator>NJ Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3564</guid>
		<description>Average Americans are so stupid, plain and simple!  I can't believe people actually are stupid enough to believe these ridiculous theories.  Aluminum does burn as anyone who's ever used a blowtorch knows</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Average Americans are so stupid, plain and simple!  I can't believe people actually are stupid enough to believe these ridiculous theories.  Aluminum does burn as anyone who's ever used a blowtorch knows</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3030</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 03:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3030</guid>
		<description>An administrative note:

Dave Longo's comment, in addition to what you see above, originally included a long list of links to conspiracy sites, with no additional commentary from him. I've approved the comment, but deleted that list of links. The purpose of comment threads is to foster constructive discussion, not so people who disagree can splatter my site with links to other pages; I consider that spam and will treat it as such. 

Just to be absolutely clear, I have no objection to people who disagree with my posts using the comments to make a counterargument. I also have no objection to said people supporting those arguments with judiciously selected links to external evidence (in fact I insist on that). But I do object to people who post long lists of links to other sites in lieu of making an argument in their own words. I trust that my readers can discern the difference.

As far as the substance of Dave's post, I consider it another illustrative example of the unexplained sinister assertion, born from the conspiracy-inclined mind's tendency to seek patterns in noise by grasping at every possible connection, no matter how tenuous or irrelevant. Let's say Dave's claims are correct. And? What does that prove? Why is that something that a sinister conspiracy capable of carrying out these attacks would do? (I note that his second assertion would imply that Saddam Hussein was in on the conspiracy, something which strikes me as rather unlikely.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An administrative note:</p>
<p>Dave Longo's comment, in addition to what you see above, originally included a long list of links to conspiracy sites, with no additional commentary from him. I've approved the comment, but deleted that list of links. The purpose of comment threads is to foster constructive discussion, not so people who disagree can splatter my site with links to other pages; I consider that spam and will treat it as such. </p>
<p>Just to be absolutely clear, I have no objection to people who disagree with my posts using the comments to make a counterargument. I also have no objection to said people supporting those arguments with judiciously selected links to external evidence (in fact I insist on that). But I do object to people who post long lists of links to other sites in lieu of making an argument in their own words. I trust that my readers can discern the difference.</p>
<p>As far as the substance of Dave's post, I consider it another illustrative example of the unexplained sinister assertion, born from the conspiracy-inclined mind's tendency to seek patterns in noise by grasping at every possible connection, no matter how tenuous or irrelevant. Let's say Dave's claims are correct. And? What does that prove? Why is that something that a sinister conspiracy capable of carrying out these attacks would do? (I note that his second assertion would imply that Saddam Hussein was in on the conspiracy, something which strikes me as rather unlikely.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Longo</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3026</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Longo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 02:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-3026</guid>
		<description>Yup, it's all just one Co Inky Dinky.

The Brits find an infected bird while running a Bird Flu 'drill'

Saddam invades another country while we are running a drill of saddam invading another country

The exact train and car is bombed in London AT THE EXACT MOMENT a drill is being run for that exact scenario

Planes are high jacked and fly into buildings on 9/11 while the gov is running drills of planes being high jacked and flown into buildings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, it's all just one Co Inky Dinky.</p>
<p>The Brits find an infected bird while running a Bird Flu 'drill'</p>
<p>Saddam invades another country while we are running a drill of saddam invading another country</p>
<p>The exact train and car is bombed in London AT THE EXACT MOMENT a drill is being run for that exact scenario</p>
<p>Planes are high jacked and fly into buildings on 9/11 while the gov is running drills of planes being high jacked and flown into buildings</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2715</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2715</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that both the previous commenter and "Matthew", above, assert that my conclusions are wrong without giving a single example of where my arguments are in error or anything important I've overlooked. I suggest that 9/11 conspiracy theorists, if they want to be taken seriously, make an effort to actually address the evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that both the previous commenter and "Matthew", above, assert that my conclusions are wrong without giving a single example of where my arguments are in error or anything important I've overlooked. I suggest that 9/11 conspiracy theorists, if they want to be taken seriously, make an effort to actually address the evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: JOrge</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2713</link>
		<dc:creator>JOrge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2713</guid>
		<description>You make some good points, but nothing that actually debunks the film. He does not claim to know exactly what happened and does indeed offer different pieces of evidence that do not add up according to either his theory, or, the official bullshit government explanation. Kennedy. Watergate. Vietnam. 9/11. Conspiracies have time and again proven to be true, but even if you don't believe his conclusions in the film, I don't think it is possible (and this belief is ac tually strengthened by websites like this that don't really debunk anything) to believe what the Bush Mafia has said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make some good points, but nothing that actually debunks the film. He does not claim to know exactly what happened and does indeed offer different pieces of evidence that do not add up according to either his theory, or, the official bullshit government explanation. Kennedy. Watergate. Vietnam. 9/11. Conspiracies have time and again proven to be true, but even if you don't believe his conclusions in the film, I don't think it is possible (and this belief is ac tually strengthened by websites like this that don't really debunk anything) to believe what the Bush Mafia has said.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2623</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 14:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2623</guid>
		<description>The real conspiracy behind 9/11 is that a bunch of Islamic terrorists trained themselves in flying planes at Western flying schools, and co-ordinated themsleves to get on several planes that were flying on 11th September 2001 and crash them into various buildings causing the death of thousands of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real conspiracy behind 9/11 is that a bunch of Islamic terrorists trained themselves in flying planes at Western flying schools, and co-ordinated themsleves to get on several planes that were flying on 11th September 2001 and crash them into various buildings causing the death of thousands of people.</p>
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		<title>By: David Ecklein</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2622</link>
		<dc:creator>David Ecklein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2622</guid>
		<description>Very thoughtful analysis here of various 9/11 theories.  The idea that government sappers choreographed controlled demolitions with the plane crashes is particularly sappy (pun?).  Why then would they blow up building #7, which was not hit by aircraft?

9/11 was a gift to the Bush administration; how they interpreted it to the public and used it (even though a poor fit) to justify the Iraq invasion, is the real "conspiracy" here, if anyone can call such transparent bungling a conspiracy.

Without admitting to a Roosevelt conspiracy (a staple of rightwingers since
America First),  I suspect that US authorities knew something was in the wind before Pearl Harbor.  After all, US and Japanese imperialist expansions were on a collision course.  But, like the British in Malaysia, they underestimated the scale and sophistication of the Japanese opening gambit, due perhaps to their denigration of non-white capabilities.  It could not have been part of their plan that such a significant portion of the fleet was wiped out, and they very well realized that it could have been much worse.  It may be possible something roughly parallel happened in developments leading up to 9/11.

I remain agnostic on the question of a pre-9/11 Bush conspiracy of any kind, but do find it hard to believe that people who could not even put over the Plame affair would be clever enough to pull it off.  Most can agree that the administration has conspired to twist all advantage possible for itself from the event once it
happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very thoughtful analysis here of various 9/11 theories.  The idea that government sappers choreographed controlled demolitions with the plane crashes is particularly sappy (pun?).  Why then would they blow up building #7, which was not hit by aircraft?</p>
<p>9/11 was a gift to the Bush administration; how they interpreted it to the public and used it (even though a poor fit) to justify the Iraq invasion, is the real "conspiracy" here, if anyone can call such transparent bungling a conspiracy.</p>
<p>Without admitting to a Roosevelt conspiracy (a staple of rightwingers since<br />
America First),  I suspect that US authorities knew something was in the wind before Pearl Harbor.  After all, US and Japanese imperialist expansions were on a collision course.  But, like the British in Malaysia, they underestimated the scale and sophistication of the Japanese opening gambit, due perhaps to their denigration of non-white capabilities.  It could not have been part of their plan that such a significant portion of the fleet was wiped out, and they very well realized that it could have been much worse.  It may be possible something roughly parallel happened in developments leading up to 9/11.</p>
<p>I remain agnostic on the question of a pre-9/11 Bush conspiracy of any kind, but do find it hard to believe that people who could not even put over the Plame affair would be clever enough to pull it off.  Most can agree that the administration has conspired to twist all advantage possible for itself from the event once it<br />
happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Azkyroth</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2182</link>
		<dc:creator>Azkyroth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 00:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/05/loose-marbles-i.html#comment-2182</guid>
		<description>Should read "secondary sources."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should read "secondary sources."</p>
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