I would like to get some idea of people's opinions of the pertinence of Complexity Science when it comes to the eternal question "Why?"

This is not relevant to this thread.

Evolution is not scientific fact, it is not science.

You're incorrect here. Evolution is a scientific fact; if you want to debate what evolution says, perhaps I could help clear you up on the issue. What particular part about evolution do you have issues with?

"Evolution is not scientific fact, it is not science."

Sorry CfC you are just plain dead wrong. Evolution is fact. It is even (as you have said otherwise) OBSERVED fact. If you want to call it a "theory" perhaps you need to go back to language 101. It is a "theory" in as much as The Theory of Limits (which modern day calculus is based) is a "Theory" or Modern day Germ Theory (you ever have a vaccination? Or prescription meds? Then you have allowed your body to be subject to a "theoretical process")...Evolution has been and IS STILL being observed in labs, geology, existing life etc...

Now then, as for creation and evolution and your very VERY weak stance, the origins of life no one knows yet. Not you, not me, not religion/faith/mysticism/voodoo, not science. YET. That said, you seem to want to draw a parrallel to creation/evolution. Guess what CfC, they are NOT the same thing. When you want to start talking about the origins of life, you want to talk about ABIOGENESIS. It's okay, most religious apologists haven't done enough study or research to know or understand the difference. But if you need fuurther assistance in the future trying to learn the basics of your arguments, please feel free to ask anyone here.

For people who dont know anything about Complexity Science - here is a sort of primer.
http://www.lclmllc.com/documents/PrimeronComplexityfromEdgewareadaptedforwebsite.pdf

And some Wiki on CAS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_adaptive_system

Sorry about the lack of actual hyperlinks - I am still unsure as to how to use it.

1.) Observable
2.) Measurable
3.) Repeatable

Creation and evolution have neither been observed (remember the 5 senses we learned about in grade school?), measured, or repeated. Therefore they are beliefs.

I was merely pointing out in my last comment that there are extraordinary events, hence extraordinary claims hold their weight. Both creation and evolution are extraordinary claims. I only challenge the logic behind neglecting the miracle known as the universe you live in- from the make up of the smallest subatomic particle to that of the largest living organism.

Another thing; why would you only assume one creator? When you have something like a watch, no one person makes a watch; people have to harvest the materials, melt and shape the metals, create the ink for the face of the watch, the tools to assemble the watch with, the person who raises the cows for the leather strap, and many more all fit into the process. Likewise, watches didn't just happen; they progressed through stages from sundial to digital. So why assume it all happened through one creator?

We have evolved to fit into our world, not the other way around.

If it were to change even a fraction of a degree, there would be catastrophic affects on earth.

You do know the moon hasn't always been where it is, right? It used to far closer to earth.

This allows equal global distribution to the rays of the sun making it possible for the food chain to exist.

That's kind of odd, being that different parts of the earth receive different amounts of sunlight, yet somehow, the food chain still exists. Please, explain to me what terrible event would happen if the earth wasn't tilted on this axis at that particular degree?

Take for example the combination of nitrogen and oxygen in the atmosphere that we breathe. It just happens to be the exact mix that life needs to prosper, it doesn't happen on any other planet that way. Did earth just luck out?

Or the alternative; since those were what was available in our atmosphere, that's what life evolved to use. I don't think life would do so well if it had to breath an element not in abudance. Again, we evolved to fit our world, not the other way around.

Is all this just a radical development from primordial ooze?

It's evolution.

There must be a fully grown cell in the very beginning. How did that first cell get there?!

And your proposition for how your creator came into being? Clearly, to have an all-powerful, intelligence, purposeful, and incredibly vast creator suddenly appear out of nothing? You lost me there.

Furthermore, the cell, is a microscopic organism of incredible design with many functions. Study the cell, its growth and division, its make up, its functions and its organelles' functions. Research mitosis and meiosis. Read up on genetics. Fortuitous happenings? Or intelligent design?

Evolution. Competition for scare resources with random mutations and differential reproduction; it's really that simple.

Logic, observation and experience tell us that if there is a design, there is a designer. If there is a plan, there is a planner.

Your whole post reminds me of that story about a puddle. After a rainstorm, the puddle wakes up and finds itself in a hole in the ground. Amazed by how perfectly the hole seems to fit the shape of itself, the puddle comes to believe that the hole was created to hold it. That's similiar to what your argument is here.

The position of the moon in relation to our earth and the sun are what affects the tides. If it were to change even a fraction of a degree, there would be catastrophic affects on earth. The moon is also, the "maid" that cleans the oceans, even the waves don't crash the shores in vain. The tides drag impurities into the depths of the sea, it's nature's constant recycling chain. Accident? Or planned?

The axis of the earth is tilted at a perfect 23 degree angle, and it's no mistake that it is. This allows equal global distribution to the rays of the sun making it possible for the food chain to exist. Know much about the sun's energy and life's dependency on it? Also, read up on photosynthesis. Then check out the process of cellular respiration. Fluke? Or purposefully done?

Take for example the combination of nitrogen and oxygen in the atmosphere that we breathe. It just happens to be the exact mix that life needs to prosper, it doesn't happen on any other planet that way. Did earth just luck out? Or could it be that the universe and everything in it was wonderfully made?

The growth of a mere seed into a giant redwood, the fertilization of the ovum developing into a baby, the intricacies of the cells that make up living organisms and then the organisms themselves are extraordinary evidence. Is all this just a radical development from primordial ooze? Maybe a big bang? Or is there an omnipotent architect.

One of the 3 statements to cell theory implies that there must have been an Almighty Creator. When you read statement 3 of cell theory you find that, "New cells are produced from existing cells." There must be a fully grown cell in the very beginning. How did that first cell get there?! Furthermore, the cell, is a microscopic organism of incredible design with many functions. Study the cell, its growth and division, its make up, its functions and its organelles' functions. Research mitosis and meiosis. Read up on genetics. Fortuitous happenings? Or intelligent design?

You see, the invisible things of God are clearly seen through His creation, to believe this is not hard at all. Logic, observation and experience tell us that if there is a design, there is a designer. If there is a plan, there is a planner. You are right, spaceman spif. EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS ARE BASED ON EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE. EXPLORE THE WORLD AROUND US AND THE EVIDENCE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. Grab a dictionary to look up the word miracle. Google search the word. Now compare to the definition of extraordinary. Similar! :) Creation is a miracle then. Miraculous or extraordinary design of our universe says, no it screams, that there has to be some sort of significant being. It's only logical.

I remember another forum, now gone, where a member was a struggling Christian. Over time, he finally admitted he could no longer believe, given so much evidence to the contrary. He made a post that I thought summed it up so perfectly:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

p.s.- In reference to the e mail that started all this: Whoever posted it on this site was right to speak out against the e mail whether atheist or God fearing, and I thank you for using Scripture as well. Chanting those excerpts is both ludicrous and disgusting because of the extreme naivety and ignorance of it all. Thank you for pointing this out. Please, do not assume that every God fearing, Bible believing person thinks that way.