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	<title>Comments on: The Gospel of Division</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: Philip Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4765</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Aug 2006 07:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4765</guid>
		<description>Any generalised explanation, whether along Marxist lines or not, needs to take into account that this phenomenon is almost non-existent in Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any generalised explanation, whether along Marxist lines or not, needs to take into account that this phenomenon is almost non-existent in Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: The Gay Species</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4744</link>
		<dc:creator>The Gay Species</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4744</guid>
		<description>Fantastic post. Even though I am not a Christian, I have had enormous respect for the Jewish revolutionary named Jesus. One must admire his Nietzschean spirit to change the world by non-traditional means. Who else could invert an entire inheritance with a new ethic that inverted traditional ethics? In spite of, and because of, his revolutionary approach, the West was changed, and not necessarily for the better (a point Nietzsche himself harps on).

The oddest of oddities is how &quot;orthodox&quot; Christianity, as it developed over the centuries, could be turned on its head at the Reformation, and how the Reformation itself could be turned on its head by evangelical Christianity. It is not surprising how different &quot;orthodox&quot; Christianity is from evangelical Christianity. In many salient ways, the heresy of heresy is itself anti-Christian. What is marketed as &quot;evangelical Christianity&quot; bears little resemblance to historical Christianity, and in many ways is diametrically opposite.

It&#039;s bad enough that &quot;orthodox&quot; or historical Christianity was (and still is) pernicious, but this &quot;new&quot; species of religion that uses some of the original language and tools bears no resemblance to the original. In many senses, it is too Jewish to be Christian. The dominance of special dispensation, divine election, God&#039;s chosen, using Jewish tribal laws (which for Jews was meant only for other Jews, not to be imposed outside the tribe), has morphed into a zealotry to restore the pre-Messianic state to prepare for the Second-coming of the Messiah. Nevermind its utter incoherence, it does what you describe: It empowers the powerless to rule.

Initially, I assumed it was a great marketing effort to make money (which it is), and what better way to do that than to insist it comes from God. Okay, that purchases consumers, but why have the consumers become militant ideologues as soldiers in a culture war to subvert the ordinary, common-sense view of the world. Why are they so bent on upending the liberal tradition on which this country was founded, then make the preposterous claim that it was founded on Christian principles (it was not), and that it must be a Christian nation in order for salvation and Armaggedom to occur? Why the overt hostility to benign science?

The similarities to Marxism cannot be discounted. The ideology becomes so paramount, so self-reinforcing, so uniting, that the &quot;struggle&quot; is itself the raison d&#039;etre, the ideology the tool. Good must conquer evil, not a bad idea actually, except that evangelical Christianity&#039;s idea of &quot;good&quot; and &quot;evil&quot; is itself evil, and the way to achieve its evil is more evil. That it has taken place in America of all places, which just ended a Cold War to avoid totalitarianism, only to be followed by a new authortarian scheme, where the homosexual has replaced the communist, where biblical morals (not even Jesus&#039;s morals) are the cause celebre is utterly fascinating as it is scary. Returning to Marx for entirely speculative purposes, is there something about Modernity that has caused this abberrant phenomenon to occur? Is it akin to capitalism giving rise to the proletariat? The weak triumphing over their lords? Is the anxiety over modernity too intolerable to face without imposing this &quot;template&quot; over it to give it some sense? I really have no clue.

Whatever gave rise to this phenomenon, it remains pernicious and freightening. And worse, it continues to grow, increasing its threat to the modern liberal state and the entire Englightenment. Maybe Rollo May&#039;s diagnosis of social anxiety is the root, but the cancer itself is obvious to all but the infected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic post. Even though I am not a Christian, I have had enormous respect for the Jewish revolutionary named Jesus. One must admire his Nietzschean spirit to change the world by non-traditional means. Who else could invert an entire inheritance with a new ethic that inverted traditional ethics? In spite of, and because of, his revolutionary approach, the West was changed, and not necessarily for the better (a point Nietzsche himself harps on).</p>
<p>The oddest of oddities is how "orthodox" Christianity, as it developed over the centuries, could be turned on its head at the Reformation, and how the Reformation itself could be turned on its head by evangelical Christianity. It is not surprising how different "orthodox" Christianity is from evangelical Christianity. In many salient ways, the heresy of heresy is itself anti-Christian. What is marketed as "evangelical Christianity" bears little resemblance to historical Christianity, and in many ways is diametrically opposite.</p>
<p>It's bad enough that "orthodox" or historical Christianity was (and still is) pernicious, but this "new" species of religion that uses some of the original language and tools bears no resemblance to the original. In many senses, it is too Jewish to be Christian. The dominance of special dispensation, divine election, God's chosen, using Jewish tribal laws (which for Jews was meant only for other Jews, not to be imposed outside the tribe), has morphed into a zealotry to restore the pre-Messianic state to prepare for the Second-coming of the Messiah. Nevermind its utter incoherence, it does what you describe: It empowers the powerless to rule.</p>
<p>Initially, I assumed it was a great marketing effort to make money (which it is), and what better way to do that than to insist it comes from God. Okay, that purchases consumers, but why have the consumers become militant ideologues as soldiers in a culture war to subvert the ordinary, common-sense view of the world. Why are they so bent on upending the liberal tradition on which this country was founded, then make the preposterous claim that it was founded on Christian principles (it was not), and that it must be a Christian nation in order for salvation and Armaggedom to occur? Why the overt hostility to benign science?</p>
<p>The similarities to Marxism cannot be discounted. The ideology becomes so paramount, so self-reinforcing, so uniting, that the "struggle" is itself the raison d'etre, the ideology the tool. Good must conquer evil, not a bad idea actually, except that evangelical Christianity's idea of "good" and "evil" is itself evil, and the way to achieve its evil is more evil. That it has taken place in America of all places, which just ended a Cold War to avoid totalitarianism, only to be followed by a new authortarian scheme, where the homosexual has replaced the communist, where biblical morals (not even Jesus's morals) are the cause celebre is utterly fascinating as it is scary. Returning to Marx for entirely speculative purposes, is there something about Modernity that has caused this abberrant phenomenon to occur? Is it akin to capitalism giving rise to the proletariat? The weak triumphing over their lords? Is the anxiety over modernity too intolerable to face without imposing this "template" over it to give it some sense? I really have no clue.</p>
<p>Whatever gave rise to this phenomenon, it remains pernicious and freightening. And worse, it continues to grow, increasing its threat to the modern liberal state and the entire Englightenment. Maybe Rollo May's diagnosis of social anxiety is the root, but the cancer itself is obvious to all but the infected.</p>
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		<title>By: andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4738</link>
		<dc:creator>andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 13:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4738</guid>
		<description>This &quot;Christianity&quot; is nothing more than fascism (this is why I still think Hitler was a Christian, if a particularly twisted one).  The actions of the supposed &quot;Christians&quot; in the story about Alex is pathetic.  What&#039;s even more pathetic is that so very few Christians speak up against this sort of thing.  I know there are good Christians but there is this &quot;circle the wagons&quot; mentality that if they criticize one another that invalidates the whole religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This "Christianity" is nothing more than fascism (this is why I still think Hitler was a Christian, if a particularly twisted one).  The actions of the supposed "Christians" in the story about Alex is pathetic.  What's even more pathetic is that so very few Christians speak up against this sort of thing.  I know there are good Christians but there is this "circle the wagons" mentality that if they criticize one another that invalidates the whole religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4731</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 09:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4731</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;the pulpit has &lt;i&gt;never&lt;/i&gt; been a place where people go to have their beliefs challenged&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(Italics mine). I think that sometimes people listen to sermons to have their beliefs challenged. Indeed a standard sermon form is to lambast the worldliness and hypocrisy of the congregation, sometimes with distasteful messages about hell thrown in.

On the wider point, I think you should rejoice at this: when religion gets into politics the long-term result is almost always harmful to that religion...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the pulpit has <i>never</i> been a place where people go to have their beliefs challenged</p></blockquote>
<p>(Italics mine). I think that sometimes people listen to sermons to have their beliefs challenged. Indeed a standard sermon form is to lambast the worldliness and hypocrisy of the congregation, sometimes with distasteful messages about hell thrown in.</p>
<p>On the wider point, I think you should rejoice at this: when religion gets into politics the long-term result is almost always harmful to that religion...</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4728</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 05:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4728</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll try another post to see if the direct link will work, even though it doesn&#039;t in the preview.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://forums.spellholdstudios.net/index.php?showtopic=21072&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll try another post to see if the direct link will work, even though it doesn't in the preview.  <a href="http://forums.spellholdstudios.net/index.php?showtopic=21072" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4727</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 05:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/08/the-gospel-of-division.html#comment-4727</guid>
		<description>This is something I&#039;ve been trying to address, when I [feel like] I have time.  I specifically brought up the &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/07/just_another_salem.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Chuck Smallowski&lt;/a&gt; case on a &lt;a href=&quot;http://forums.spellholdstudios.net/index.php?&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;gaming-related board&lt;/a&gt; I frequent  (in the &quot;Recreation Room&quot; forum, the &quot;Let&#039;s Hear it for Christian Love&quot; thread; I&#039;m Azkyroth...and for some stupid reason the direct link to the threat doesn&#039;t want to work).  The general response was rather sharply divided between appropriate (if lethargic) outrage and what looks for all the world like affected defensive incredulity (basically, one step above &quot;Scoffing&quot;).  I&#039;ve been meaning to respond to the implications by some of the other board members that this sort of thing is exaggerated or rare in the U.S., but I don&#039;t have nearly enough examples for my liking.  If anyone has any articles that illustrate this trend especially well I&#039;d very much appreciate links (particularly to that poll showing that Americans were vastly less likely to vote for an atheist than any other minority demographic).  I&#039;ll be using the ones Adam mentioned here...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is something I've been trying to address, when I [feel like] I have time.  I specifically brought up the <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/07/just_another_salem.php" rel="nofollow">Chuck Smallowski</a> case on a <a href="http://forums.spellholdstudios.net/index.php?" rel="nofollow">gaming-related board</a> I frequent  (in the "Recreation Room" forum, the "Let's Hear it for Christian Love" thread; I'm Azkyroth...and for some stupid reason the direct link to the threat doesn't want to work).  The general response was rather sharply divided between appropriate (if lethargic) outrage and what looks for all the world like affected defensive incredulity (basically, one step above "Scoffing").  I've been meaning to respond to the implications by some of the other board members that this sort of thing is exaggerated or rare in the U.S., but I don't have nearly enough examples for my liking.  If anyone has any articles that illustrate this trend especially well I'd very much appreciate links (particularly to that poll showing that Americans were vastly less likely to vote for an atheist than any other minority demographic).  I'll be using the ones Adam mentioned here...</p>
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