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	<title>Comments on: New on Ebon Musings: Turning Away Anger</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed,  7 Jan 2009 04:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: King Aardvark</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6929</link>
		<dc:creator>King Aardvark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6929</guid>
		<description>No offense to Christians, but in my experience, Christians seem to have the anger issues, and merely try to repress the anger more.  In fact, many of the Christians I know become Christians in large part because the whole faith thing helps them to either "give their anger to God" ie, be no longer angry by transferring it to their imaginary father figure, or repress it so they can get on with their lives.  

Granted, a large percentage of the Christians I know come from one big extended family that has a temper and generally don't resolve issues very well, so that may skew things a bit.  

I would say that atheists would generally not be as angry.  They are more likely to view the world as indifferent and view other people as natural, instinctive beings, kind of like animals.  You can't get mad at a rock, nor can you get mad at a raccoon that eats your garbage; they are just raccoons doing what raccoons do.  Likewise with humans, therefore it's difficult to get very angry.  Well, it can still be damned annoying, but it's harder to take personally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No offense to Christians, but in my experience, Christians seem to have the anger issues, and merely try to repress the anger more.  In fact, many of the Christians I know become Christians in large part because the whole faith thing helps them to either "give their anger to God" ie, be no longer angry by transferring it to their imaginary father figure, or repress it so they can get on with their lives.  </p>
<p>Granted, a large percentage of the Christians I know come from one big extended family that has a temper and generally don't resolve issues very well, so that may skew things a bit.  </p>
<p>I would say that atheists would generally not be as angry.  They are more likely to view the world as indifferent and view other people as natural, instinctive beings, kind of like animals.  You can't get mad at a rock, nor can you get mad at a raccoon that eats your garbage; they are just raccoons doing what raccoons do.  Likewise with humans, therefore it's difficult to get very angry.  Well, it can still be damned annoying, but it's harder to take personally.</p>
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		<title>By: Interested Atheist</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6603</link>
		<dc:creator>Interested Atheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Oct 2006 11:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6603</guid>
		<description>Thanks a lot, Adam. Great read as usual. 
And a lot of worrying stuff in there...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks a lot, Adam. Great read as usual.<br />
And a lot of worrying stuff in there...</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6581</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6581</guid>
		<description>Hmm... The DNS change shouldn't have taken this long, I think, but maybe some ISPs are slow to update. I'm going to look into this. In the meantime, if anyone still can't get to Ebon Musings, &lt;a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/angryatheists.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;'s a copy of the new article.

&lt;blockquote&gt;BTW, Adam, about your essays…did the phrase "Into the Clear Air" originate with you (your essay is the first link Google turns up, and one of the only full phrase matches)...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, it's original to me, as far as I know. It's a term that arose in an e-mail conversation I was having with a person who had recently deconverted.

&lt;blockquote&gt;and do you have any objections for it being used as a title for a hypothetical rock opera/concept album by a hypothetical band?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not at all. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm... The DNS change shouldn't have taken this long, I think, but maybe some ISPs are slow to update. I'm going to look into this. In the meantime, if anyone still can't get to Ebon Musings, <a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/angryatheists.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>'s a copy of the new article.</p>
<blockquote><p>BTW, Adam, about your essays…did the phrase "Into the Clear Air" originate with you (your essay is the first link Google turns up, and one of the only full phrase matches)...</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, it's original to me, as far as I know. It's a term that arose in an e-mail conversation I was having with a person who had recently deconverted.</p>
<blockquote><p>and do you have any objections for it being used as a title for a hypothetical rock opera/concept album by a hypothetical band?</p></blockquote>
<p>Not at all. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6576</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 22:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6576</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And why is God supposed to be a Father and not a Mother? Does it reflect dislike of one's (human) mother?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My inference has always been that it's because (insecure) men wrote the books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And why is God supposed to be a Father and not a Mother? Does it reflect dislike of one's (human) mother?</p></blockquote>
<p>My inference has always been that it's because (insecure) men wrote the books.</p>
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		<title>By: lpetrich</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6569</link>
		<dc:creator>lpetrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6569</guid>
		<description>And why is God supposed to be a Father and not a Mother? Does it reflect dislike of one's (human) mother?

And I note that pagan religions have typically featured female as well as male deities, which makes a bit more sense than a single male god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And why is God supposed to be a Father and not a Mother? Does it reflect dislike of one's (human) mother?</p>
<p>And I note that pagan religions have typically featured female as well as male deities, which makes a bit more sense than a single male god.</p>
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		<title>By: Aerik</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6567</link>
		<dc:creator>Aerik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6567</guid>
		<description>Yeah, somebody email it to me, too, please!  onlyaerik@gmail.com .  I still can't connect.  I get

 &lt;blockquote&gt;The connection has timed out

      

      
      
      

      
        
        

          

The server at www.ebonmusings.org is taking too long to respond.&lt;/blockquote&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, somebody email it to me, too, please!  <a href="mailto:onlyaerik@gmail.com">onlyaerik@gmail.com</a> .  I still can't connect.  I get</p>
<blockquote><p>The connection has timed out</p>
<p>The server at <a href="http://www.ebonmusings.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.ebonmusings.org</a> is taking too long to respond.</p></blockquote>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: Interested Atheist</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6546</link>
		<dc:creator>Interested Atheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 11:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6546</guid>
		<description>Thinking about it, doesn't it seem more logical that someone with a defective father would become a theist rather than an atheist? :)

Also - still can't get onto the new Ebon Musings website! I am feeling most distressed about it. Could someone kind soul copy it into an email and send it to me at rowankohll@hotmail.com, please?

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thinking about it, doesn't it seem more logical that someone with a defective father would become a theist rather than an atheist? :)</p>
<p>Also - still can't get onto the new Ebon Musings website! I am feeling most distressed about it. Could someone kind soul copy it into an email and send it to me at <a href="mailto:rowankohll@hotmail.com">rowankohll@hotmail.com</a>, please?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6541</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 08:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6541</guid>
		<description>BTW, Adam, about your essays...did the phrase "Into the Clear Air" originate with you (your essay is the first link Google turns up, and one of the only full phrase matches), and do you have any objections for it being used as a title for a hypothetical rock opera/concept album by a hypothetical band?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, Adam, about your essays...did the phrase "Into the Clear Air" originate with you (your essay is the first link Google turns up, and one of the only full phrase matches), and do you have any objections for it being used as a title for a hypothetical rock opera/concept album by a hypothetical band?</p>
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		<title>By: Rastaban</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6526</link>
		<dc:creator>Rastaban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 00:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6526</guid>
		<description>I suspect that the primary reason atheists are considered angry is because of the assonance created by combining the two words ("angry" repeats the first two vowel sounds in "atheist"). "Angry atheists" creates a nice-sounding slur. At the same time it proposes an explanation for atheism which encourages believers to sidestep the troubling questions atheists raise about God's existence.

On a related matter, are you familiar with psychological explanations for atheism based on the notion that we atheists had "defective fathers" when we were children? For example, Paul C. Vitz proposes that in &lt;a href="http://www.leaderu.com/truth/1truth12.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;"The Psychology of Atheism"&lt;/a&gt; where he argues that&lt;blockquote&gt;once a child or youth is disappointed in and loses his or her respect for their earthly father, then belief in their heavenly Father becomes impossible. There are, of course, many ways that a father can lose his authority and seriously disappoint a child. Some of these ways-for which clinical evidence is given below-are:

   1. He can be present but obviously weak, cowardly, and unworthy of respect - even if otherwise pleasant or "nice."
   2. He can be present but physically, sexually, or psychologically abusive.
   3. He can be absent through death or by abandoning or leaving the family. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt; Vitz adds that &lt;blockquote&gt;it was in reading the biographies of atheists that this hypothesis first struck me&lt;/blockquote&gt; and goes on to point out a number of prominent atheists who apparently had "defective" fathers: Freud, Marx, Feuerbach, d'Holbach, Nietzche, Russell, Sartre, even Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

To be fair, I think Vitz goal is simply to counter &#38; neutralize psychological explanations for belief. Nevertheless, the idea of atheism being due to defective fathers has gained some traction among theists. Perhaps it should be addressed along with the "angry atheist" claim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that the primary reason atheists are considered angry is because of the assonance created by combining the two words ("angry" repeats the first two vowel sounds in "atheist"). "Angry atheists" creates a nice-sounding slur. At the same time it proposes an explanation for atheism which encourages believers to sidestep the troubling questions atheists raise about God's existence.</p>
<p>On a related matter, are you familiar with psychological explanations for atheism based on the notion that we atheists had "defective fathers" when we were children? For example, Paul C. Vitz proposes that in <a href="http://www.leaderu.com/truth/1truth12.html" rel="nofollow">"The Psychology of Atheism"</a> where he argues that<br />
<blockquote>once a child or youth is disappointed in and loses his or her respect for their earthly father, then belief in their heavenly Father becomes impossible. There are, of course, many ways that a father can lose his authority and seriously disappoint a child. Some of these ways-for which clinical evidence is given below-are:</p>
<p>   1. He can be present but obviously weak, cowardly, and unworthy of respect - even if otherwise pleasant or "nice."<br />
   2. He can be present but physically, sexually, or psychologically abusive.<br />
   3. He can be absent through death or by abandoning or leaving the family.
</p></blockquote>
<p> Vitz adds that<br />
<blockquote>it was in reading the biographies of atheists that this hypothesis first struck me</p></blockquote>
<p> and goes on to point out a number of prominent atheists who apparently had "defective" fathers: Freud, Marx, Feuerbach, d'Holbach, Nietzche, Russell, Sartre, even Madalyn Murray O'Hair.</p>
<p>To be fair, I think Vitz goal is simply to counter &amp; neutralize psychological explanations for belief. Nevertheless, the idea of atheism being due to defective fathers has gained some traction among theists. Perhaps it should be addressed along with the "angry atheist" claim.</p>
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		<title>By: Interested Atheist</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6501</link>
		<dc:creator>Interested Atheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 01:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/09/new-on-ebon-musings-turning-away-anger.html#comment-6501</guid>
		<description>Hi, Adam. I'm in China, and I can't connect to your new website either. Hoping it will clear itself up soon!

Especially because I'd like to read this article. It might be useful for me. I've just started posting on Christian Forums. It's so easy to get angry at them! Especially when they say stupid ("Well, you know, if I'm wrong I lose nothing, but...") things. It's also very tempting to be sarcastic. 

But the best atheists and agnostics I've seen on the forums are the ones who keep their cool. When arguing, all they do is point out the logical fallacies again and again. It doesn't look so much fun, to be honest, but it may be more effective in changing people's attitudes towards atheists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Adam. I'm in China, and I can't connect to your new website either. Hoping it will clear itself up soon!</p>
<p>Especially because I'd like to read this article. It might be useful for me. I've just started posting on Christian Forums. It's so easy to get angry at them! Especially when they say stupid ("Well, you know, if I'm wrong I lose nothing, but...") things. It's also very tempting to be sarcastic. </p>
<p>But the best atheists and agnostics I've seen on the forums are the ones who keep their cool. When arguing, all they do is point out the logical fallacies again and again. It doesn't look so much fun, to be honest, but it may be more effective in changing people's attitudes towards atheists.</p>
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