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	<title>Comments on: Is Atheism Unnatural?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue,  6 Jan 2009 11:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-28091</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-28091</guid>
		<description>The arguments above are wonderful and spell it out better than I could. O would offer up only one other reason this misperception of "atheism=unnatural in America" is this:

Checkers always did outsell chess. No one in the states, with rare excpetion wants to think for themeselves or rock the boat. They do not want to to disturb the parade of gizmos, gadgets and widgets put forth to the consumer society. They don't want to lose the 168+ channels of TV or the endless well of snacks and drinks.

In essence, the FEAR of losing all this is part of the view that atheism is untaural, because it allows people to THINK for themselves, and by doing this it has the potential to disrupt the consumeristic/don't think for yourself/pop-pulpit metality that pervades US culture.

Eric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The arguments above are wonderful and spell it out better than I could. O would offer up only one other reason this misperception of "atheism=unnatural in America" is this:</p>
<p>Checkers always did outsell chess. No one in the states, with rare excpetion wants to think for themeselves or rock the boat. They do not want to to disturb the parade of gizmos, gadgets and widgets put forth to the consumer society. They don't want to lose the 168+ channels of TV or the endless well of snacks and drinks.</p>
<p>In essence, the FEAR of losing all this is part of the view that atheism is untaural, because it allows people to THINK for themselves, and by doing this it has the potential to disrupt the consumeristic/don't think for yourself/pop-pulpit metality that pervades US culture.</p>
<p>Eric</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-25391</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 23:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-25391</guid>
		<description>"Some of both" seems to be the answer.  "Vicious cycle" might also be a handy description.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Some of both" seems to be the answer.  "Vicious cycle" might also be a handy description.</p>
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		<title>By: Maronan</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-25387</link>
		<dc:creator>Maronan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-25387</guid>
		<description>The massive secularization of countries like Sweden already disprove the claim that religious belief is "natural" and atheists will always be in the minority.

I might agree with a slight variation of the original sentiment expressed by Andrew Brown— atheists will always be a minority &lt;i&gt;when society is unstable or poor.&lt;/i&gt; I read somewhere (don't remember where, making it unverifiable, but I'll say it anyway) that atheism can become a majority position only when society is relatively well off, or at least, it is much more likely in those cases. In relatively well-off Europe, atheism is not necessarily a minority view, and at minimum, it's not such a small minority as in the US. In the violence-ridden nations of the Middle East, religion is far more common. Although the US is probably closer to Europe than the Middle East in terms of societal well-being, we have a much larger gap between the rich and the poor, with far more people in poverty. We have no universal health care, putting people at risk— if you're poor, you'll be unable to afford health care, or you will be ruined by one sickness, or you will have to forego preventitive care, leading to ill health.

So here's a question: It's been established that widespread religion in a society is correlated with greater violence. Is this because religion causes people to be violent, or because violence disrupts a stable society and leads people to turn to religion for the comfort that real life no longer provides?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The massive secularization of countries like Sweden already disprove the claim that religious belief is "natural" and atheists will always be in the minority.</p>
<p>I might agree with a slight variation of the original sentiment expressed by Andrew Brown— atheists will always be a minority <i>when society is unstable or poor.</i> I read somewhere (don't remember where, making it unverifiable, but I'll say it anyway) that atheism can become a majority position only when society is relatively well off, or at least, it is much more likely in those cases. In relatively well-off Europe, atheism is not necessarily a minority view, and at minimum, it's not such a small minority as in the US. In the violence-ridden nations of the Middle East, religion is far more common. Although the US is probably closer to Europe than the Middle East in terms of societal well-being, we have a much larger gap between the rich and the poor, with far more people in poverty. We have no universal health care, putting people at risk— if you're poor, you'll be unable to afford health care, or you will be ruined by one sickness, or you will have to forego preventitive care, leading to ill health.</p>
<p>So here's a question: It's been established that widespread religion in a society is correlated with greater violence. Is this because religion causes people to be violent, or because violence disrupts a stable society and leads people to turn to religion for the comfort that real life no longer provides?</p>
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		<title>By: Kezrek</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-24070</link>
		<dc:creator>Kezrek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 18:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-24070</guid>
		<description>I'm very intrigued by these cavemen here. ^_^

Very nice article and arguments, I loved reading this stuff. Go humans! *waves flag*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm very intrigued by these cavemen here. ^_^</p>
<p>Very nice article and arguments, I loved reading this stuff. Go humans! *waves flag*</p>
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		<title>By: anti-nonsense</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-15790</link>
		<dc:creator>anti-nonsense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 06:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-15790</guid>
		<description>I suppose if you wanted to believe that humans have a genetic tendency to believe in a god then atheism could be "unnatural". And I do think there are some elements of human psychology that can result in belief in absurd things that have nothing to do with the way reality really works, especially if they are raised in a culture that is steeped in that kind of stuff.

but it's certainly not against any natural laws and I don't feel that as some religious people insist that I "know God exists but am just in denial". Quite the opposite, I've always felt that trying to believe in that stuff would be denying what I know, or strongly believe to be true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose if you wanted to believe that humans have a genetic tendency to believe in a god then atheism could be "unnatural". And I do think there are some elements of human psychology that can result in belief in absurd things that have nothing to do with the way reality really works, especially if they are raised in a culture that is steeped in that kind of stuff.</p>
<p>but it's certainly not against any natural laws and I don't feel that as some religious people insist that I "know God exists but am just in denial". Quite the opposite, I've always felt that trying to believe in that stuff would be denying what I know, or strongly believe to be true.</p>
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		<title>By: Gipper</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-15778</link>
		<dc:creator>Gipper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 04:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-15778</guid>
		<description>Atheism is natural, religion is not. How many creatures practiced any form of religion before we came along? How many people, if they were kept away from all religion, would claim themselves to believe in a god? You have to be taught to have religious beliefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atheism is natural, religion is not. How many creatures practiced any form of religion before we came along? How many people, if they were kept away from all religion, would claim themselves to believe in a god? You have to be taught to have religious beliefs.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-9369</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Nov 2006 01:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-9369</guid>
		<description>I wrote on our 'Sea of Faith' blog a few days ago

'There have been small and big revolutions in(western) human thought right throughout history.In the fifteenth century Copernicus startled the world by removing the earth from the centre of the Universe, then Darwin showed that we humans were just another animal but of course not yet accepted by everyone.Not two hundred years ago we began to realise that slavery was not right,then a hundred years ago women's rights started to become the norm &lt;a HREF="http://seaoffaithhawkesbaygroup.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt; read on&#62;&#62;&lt;/A&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote on our 'Sea of Faith' blog a few days ago</p>
<p>'There have been small and big revolutions in(western) human thought right throughout history.In the fifteenth century Copernicus startled the world by removing the earth from the centre of the Universe, then Darwin showed that we humans were just another animal but of course not yet accepted by everyone.Not two hundred years ago we began to realise that slavery was not right,then a hundred years ago women's rights started to become the norm <a HREF="http://seaoffaithhawkesbaygroup.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"> read on&gt;&gt;</a></p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Struthers</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-9361</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Struthers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-9361</guid>
		<description>SM  - Thank you for articulating what I realise I was attempting to get at! The Enlightenment introduced the notion that in might be ok to be sceptical about received opinion etc. But as you say different forms of supernaturalism spontaneously arose - idealism, nationalism, fascism, fundamentalism etc. 
The answer as i see it is to 'innoculate' persons from these various mutations by the spread of a meme - being a Bright???? This would challenge people to clarify their positions and set standards for 'rational' debate???
I have this strange fantasy/thought that the Enlightenment's impact would have been quite different if we had had this word/concept???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SM  - Thank you for articulating what I realise I was attempting to get at! The Enlightenment introduced the notion that in might be ok to be sceptical about received opinion etc. But as you say different forms of supernaturalism spontaneously arose - idealism, nationalism, fascism, fundamentalism etc.<br />
The answer as i see it is to 'innoculate' persons from these various mutations by the spread of a meme - being a Bright???? This would challenge people to clarify their positions and set standards for 'rational' debate???<br />
I have this strange fantasy/thought that the Enlightenment's impact would have been quite different if we had had this word/concept???</p>
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		<title>By: Tommykey</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-9360</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommykey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-9360</guid>
		<description>Atheism seems unnatural simply because religion is so embedded in our culture.  Take Catholics, for example, who number a large portion of the population here in the United States.  The Church plays such a prominent role in the lives of Catholics.  (BTW, I am a former Catholic.) It is more than believing that the Pope is God's emissary on Earth and going to church every Sunday.  The Church provides milestones in the lives of its believers, beginning with baptism, followed by communion, confirmation, and in many cases, marriage, and then ultimately the funeral mass. All of these events are important in the lives of families and are frequently serve as occasions in which family and friends join together in celebration. To ask them to give up their religion is like asking them to amputate a limb.  

Even though I am an atheist, I still felt compelled for conformity's sake to be married in the Catholic church (my Filipina wife being Catholic) and having our two children baptized in the church.  For me, it was all for show to give the family what they expected.  But I do draw the line at having my children go through communion and all that comes after that.  My wife, thankfully, is rather lax in her Catholicism, and she knows that I am an atheist. I believe that I will be able to dodge the communion bullet for my kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atheism seems unnatural simply because religion is so embedded in our culture.  Take Catholics, for example, who number a large portion of the population here in the United States.  The Church plays such a prominent role in the lives of Catholics.  (BTW, I am a former Catholic.) It is more than believing that the Pope is God's emissary on Earth and going to church every Sunday.  The Church provides milestones in the lives of its believers, beginning with baptism, followed by communion, confirmation, and in many cases, marriage, and then ultimately the funeral mass. All of these events are important in the lives of families and are frequently serve as occasions in which family and friends join together in celebration. To ask them to give up their religion is like asking them to amputate a limb.  </p>
<p>Even though I am an atheist, I still felt compelled for conformity's sake to be married in the Catholic church (my Filipina wife being Catholic) and having our two children baptized in the church.  For me, it was all for show to give the family what they expected.  But I do draw the line at having my children go through communion and all that comes after that.  My wife, thankfully, is rather lax in her Catholicism, and she knows that I am an atheist. I believe that I will be able to dodge the communion bullet for my kids.</p>
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		<title>By: SM</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-9319</link>
		<dc:creator>SM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 06:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/is-atheism-unnatural.html#comment-9319</guid>
		<description>Ipetrich and others, I don't think that theism can be compared to ignorance of a fact (although theists are, of course, mostly ignorant of the fact that in all probability there are no gods).  I also think that unnatural in the sense of rare is not the same as unnatural in the sense of opposed to some natural force.  I think skepticism, "being a bright," or whatever you wish to call it is likely unnatural in the later sense.  The problem is a way of thinking more than ignorance of a fact, and there is excellent evidence that a tendency towards this way of thinking is built into human nature just like the tendency to be possessive of our mates or a hundred other things.  Let me repeat, I know of no society which was not pervaded by supernaturalism.  And again, deconverting most theists would do little good if they promptly start joining odd political movements and investing in perpetual motion machines to supply their emotional need for woo.

I should add that even the struggle to get most people thinking skeptically cannot be won it certainly does not mean we should give up.  Few battles worth fighting can ever be completely won.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ipetrich and others, I don't think that theism can be compared to ignorance of a fact (although theists are, of course, mostly ignorant of the fact that in all probability there are no gods).  I also think that unnatural in the sense of rare is not the same as unnatural in the sense of opposed to some natural force.  I think skepticism, "being a bright," or whatever you wish to call it is likely unnatural in the later sense.  The problem is a way of thinking more than ignorance of a fact, and there is excellent evidence that a tendency towards this way of thinking is built into human nature just like the tendency to be possessive of our mates or a hundred other things.  Let me repeat, I know of no society which was not pervaded by supernaturalism.  And again, deconverting most theists would do little good if they promptly start joining odd political movements and investing in perpetual motion machines to supply their emotional need for woo.</p>
<p>I should add that even the struggle to get most people thinking skeptically cannot be won it certainly does not mean we should give up.  Few battles worth fighting can ever be completely won.</p>
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