Comments on: What Will Replace Religion? http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Wed, 7 Jan 2009 03:46:18 +0000 By: john chiotti http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10148 john chiotti Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:27:58 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10148 jeromy my merriam-webster suggest buddhism is a religion---how do you classify it----- if your father is not praying--does he prefer meditating or self reflection---help me with a discription---what is a Haha its not in my dict. thanks rocco <!-- HTML comments: 0 Links: 0 Link text: 0 Total: 204 Ratio: 0 --> jeromy
my merriam-webster suggest buddhism is a religion---how do you classify it----- if your father is not praying--does he prefer meditating or self reflection---help me with a discription---what is a Haha its not in my dict.
thanks rocco

]]> By: Jeromy http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10107 Jeromy Sat, 18 Nov 2006 03:01:45 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10107 Hi Alex. In fact, there are many. I will give you the one I started with, which startled me and delighted me at the same time. From that, I took the reference made by this one, and just kept running with it. Read "Roughing It" by Mark Twain. He provided other references in an appendix. They are obscure, but findable. And yes, I understand that Mark Twain had a tendency to take the truth out back and beat it with a happy stick. Hawaiian people I know and have worked with in the past have tried to make things more clear to me, but honestly, it is very difficult to understand for me, the whole island philosiphy. I hope you can understand it better than I do. But it has been impressed on me that, even though "spirits" of the sea and the volcanos are plentiful in Hawaiian lore, my friends and much of the literature I have read on the subject indicates that these "spirits" were representations of the items of nature, used to make predictions of natural disasters and to tell mythical tales of warning and praise for the beauty of nature. The spirits were not, as described by my friends, "believed in", in the same way a christian believes in god. Rather, they were more akin to the parable told here - known to be false, but understood and contemplated in a very real manner. There is also literature, including history books, that use references from christian missionaries, that tell essentially the same tale, with the twist that the native Hawaiians were "savages" and that they "worshiped idols" and and the like. It seems likely to me that these interpretations of the pre-white-man island people are purposely, or perhaps subconciously deviant, in order to justify the forceful manner in which religion and modern society were forced on the island people. If you consider that the top priority of the missionary is to indoctrinate others with chritianity, it is easy to see that the missionary has a tendency to overlook little things like whether or not items carved of stone or wood are actually being worshiped. Some christians even think that atheism is a form of religion. In fact, I polled many of my christian friends about Buddhism, and every one of them think it is a religion, and that buddha is an idol that they pray to. I was unable to convince them otherwise. My father-in-law is buddhist, a real one. He is Asian. Haha. Anyway, he is very old and wise, as the saying goes, and he made sure that I understand what he is doing inside the temple. He is not praying, and, in his own words, there is no god. I made more than one point in my first posting. Is this the "that" that you were referring to making references about? Good night for now - Jeromy. <!-- Links: 0 Link text: 0 Total: 2212 Ratio: 0 --> Hi Alex. In fact, there are many. I will give you the one I started with, which startled me and delighted me at the same time. From that, I took the reference made by this one, and just kept running with it. Read "Roughing It" by Mark Twain. He provided other references in an appendix. They are obscure, but findable. And yes, I understand that Mark Twain had a tendency to take the truth out back and beat it with a happy stick. Hawaiian people I know and have worked with in the past have tried to make things more clear to me, but honestly, it is very difficult to understand for me, the whole island philosiphy. I hope you can understand it better than I do. But it has been impressed on me that, even though "spirits" of the sea and the volcanos are plentiful in Hawaiian lore, my friends and much of the literature I have read on the subject indicates that these "spirits" were representations of the items of nature, used to make predictions of natural disasters and to tell mythical tales of warning and praise for the beauty of nature. The spirits were not, as described by my friends, "believed in", in the same way a christian believes in god. Rather, they were more akin to the parable told here - known to be false, but understood and contemplated in a very real manner. There is also literature, including history books, that use references from christian missionaries, that tell essentially the same tale, with the twist that the native Hawaiians were "savages" and that they "worshiped idols" and and the like. It seems likely to me that these interpretations of the pre-white-man island people are purposely, or perhaps subconciously deviant, in order to justify the forceful manner in which religion and modern society were forced on the island people. If you consider that the top priority of the missionary is to indoctrinate others with chritianity, it is easy to see that the missionary has a tendency to overlook little things like whether or not items carved of stone or wood are actually being worshiped. Some christians even think that atheism is a form of religion. In fact, I polled many of my christian friends about Buddhism, and every one of them think it is a religion, and that buddha is an idol that they pray to. I was unable to convince them otherwise. My father-in-law is buddhist, a real one. He is Asian. Haha. Anyway, he is very old and wise, as the saying goes, and he made sure that I understand what he is doing inside the temple. He is not praying, and, in his own words, there is no god. I made more than one point in my first posting. Is this the "that" that you were referring to making references about? Good night for now - Jeromy.

]]> By: Alex Weaver http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10083 Alex Weaver Fri, 17 Nov 2006 08:38:27 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10083 Jeromy, I'm intrigued. Do you have a reference for that? Jeromy, I'm intrigued. Do you have a reference for that?

]]> By: Jeromy http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10076 Jeromy Fri, 17 Nov 2006 04:25:46 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10076 So far, nobody has mentioned the obvious, so I will. This experiment has already been done. There was already a society that held no (real) deistical beliefs, had no religion. There was no war, no hunger, peace and harmony were the mundane. The people of this society rejoiced in the natural world. They gathered together and made stories of fantastic myths, not to explain why the sun and moon rise and fall, but instead to explain why people should be good to each other, and give their children love. History has been written by the victors (as it always is!) to misrepresent this society. Christians went there and "converted the brown heathens", justifying their hideous actions through lies in our school books, lies that are meaningless to anybody but another religious person, saying that these people worshiped idols (who cares?), ran around naked (sounds fun to me), and saw no problem at all offering their daughters for sex to entertain the guests (no comment necessary). I am talking about the most isolated land mass on Earth, the Sandwich Islands. Unfortunately, it seems that once religion has reared its ugly head, a society is tainted forever. Billps has said it right, we should not try to emulate a failed societal model. I think your motivation, however, is kind, showing great empathy. You are a good person to have put so much thought and time into this. Thanks. <!-- Links: 0 Link text: 0 Total: 1152 Ratio: 0 --> So far, nobody has mentioned the obvious, so I will. This experiment has already been done. There was already a society that held no (real) deistical beliefs, had no religion. There was no war, no hunger, peace and harmony were the mundane. The people of this society rejoiced in the natural world. They gathered together and made stories of fantastic myths, not to explain why the sun and moon rise and fall, but instead to explain why people should be good to each other, and give their children love. History has been written by the victors (as it always is!) to misrepresent this society. Christians went there and "converted the brown heathens", justifying their hideous actions through lies in our school books, lies that are meaningless to anybody but another religious person, saying that these people worshiped idols (who cares?), ran around naked (sounds fun to me), and saw no problem at all offering their daughters for sex to entertain the guests (no comment necessary). I am talking about the most isolated land mass on Earth, the Sandwich Islands. Unfortunately, it seems that once religion has reared its ugly head, a society is tainted forever. Billps has said it right, we should not try to emulate a failed societal model. I think your motivation, however, is kind, showing great empathy. You are a good person to have put so much thought and time into this. Thanks.

]]> By: Oloye Ajanaku http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10020 Oloye Ajanaku Wed, 15 Nov 2006 04:26:54 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10020 I second your motion, to a new culture and world where all of us can live out its creed. I stand on the shoulders of Jefferson, Lincoln, Dr M.L.King JR., and Dr Nkosi Ajanaku. They all say we have a document in place that addresses just your point (DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE). Dr. Nkosi has given this new science a name, he calls it HUMACUTURE, how to raise babies to be free of the past cuture of hate, crime, ignorance, pain, racism, fear and proverty . IT"S A POSSIBLITY. TUTA! DR. Oloye Ajanaku I second your motion, to a new culture and world where all of us can live out its creed. I stand on the shoulders of Jefferson, Lincoln, Dr M.L.King JR., and Dr Nkosi Ajanaku. They all say we have a document in place that addresses just your point (DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE).
Dr. Nkosi has given this new science a name, he calls it HUMACUTURE, how to raise babies to be free of the past cuture of hate, crime, ignorance, pain, racism, fear and proverty . IT"S A POSSIBLITY.

TUTA!
DR. Oloye Ajanaku

]]> By: John McNally http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10014 John McNally Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:55:07 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10014 I also thought the church or religion being defined does exist as Unitarian Universalism. There is no creed or required belief in any kind of super-naturalism. Before joining the church I would describe myself as an atheist disposed towards science, but now that I have explored humanism, I think that is a better adjective. I have attended a UU church for a couple years, and have rarely heard anything an atheist would consider irritatingly wrong as belief in a deity. The one thing that could stop some from attending other than just disliking the idea of a church, would be the principle of tolerance of other's beliefs. I think most of the churches do present services as primarily a one way sermon delivered by a minister. But some may be less formal and discussion based. The sermons are mostly presented indoors, but there has been one Sunday each spring spent outdoors. But its pretty cold here in the winter and there isn't really any formal services in the summer. I've heard sermons on transcendentalists/naturalists such as Emerson; a few Sundays ago while assisting with Sunday School I found the topic was Henry David Thoreau. The sermons do sometimes mention the Bible, but it is rare, and if a quote is picked from there, it will be presented just as any other quote from literature created by philosophers, scientists, poets, psychologists, other religious texts, both new and old. The church is old and does have some trappings of christianity, it might be probable that you will see some sermon on Jesus' life around Christmas time. And it does lean liberal, so you might run into liberal Christians who are fleeing from the bigotry and dogma of other churches. But it has a very strong humanist base, which actually is slightly older than the current diversity trend, so if you are looking for humanist church, I'd suggest looking to see if a UU church exists in your area. I also thought the church or religion being defined does exist as Unitarian Universalism. There is no creed or required belief in any kind of super-naturalism. Before joining the church I would describe myself as an atheist disposed towards science, but now that I have explored humanism, I think that is a better adjective. I have attended a UU church for a couple years, and have rarely heard anything an atheist would consider irritatingly wrong as belief in a deity. The one thing that could stop some from attending other than just disliking the idea of a church, would be the principle of tolerance of other's beliefs.

I think most of the churches do present services as primarily a one way sermon delivered by a minister. But some may be less formal and discussion based. The sermons are mostly presented indoors, but there has been one Sunday each spring spent outdoors. But its pretty cold here in the winter and there isn't really any formal services in the summer. I've heard sermons on transcendentalists/naturalists such as Emerson; a few Sundays ago while assisting with Sunday School I found the topic was Henry David Thoreau. The sermons do sometimes mention the Bible, but it is rare, and if a quote is picked from there, it will be presented just as any other quote from literature created by philosophers, scientists, poets, psychologists, other religious texts, both new and old.

The church is old and does have some trappings of christianity, it might be probable that you will see some sermon on Jesus' life around Christmas time. And it does lean liberal, so you might run into liberal Christians who are fleeing from the bigotry and dogma of other churches. But it has a very strong humanist base, which actually is slightly older than the current diversity trend, so if you are looking for humanist church, I'd suggest looking to see if a UU church exists in your area.

]]> By: stillwaters http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10007 stillwaters Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:03:21 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10007 Ebonmuse, this "church" that you describe sounds somewhat like the <a href="http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html" rel="nofollow"> Unitarian Universalist Association</a> that presently exists today. Ebonmuse, this "church" that you describe sounds somewhat like the Unitarian Universalist Association that presently exists today.

]]> By: Alex Weaver http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10004 Alex Weaver Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:11:09 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10004 Sam: Unless he meant that in the sense that sane people are not preoccupied with their theological positions while in combat situations (and hence are not, at the moment, "Atheists" or "Christians" or "Buddhists" or...) the statement you're quoting is not only flatly wrong but arrogant and offensive. <a href="http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/index.html" rel="nofollow">Adam's site</a> has numerous stories from Atheists who in fact have served in the military and fought for their country, and several of his posts have addressed this particular hateful stereotype as well. Here, also, is a link to the <a href="http://www.maaf.info/" rel="nofollow">Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers</a>. If you see that gent again, please give him the links above. Sam: Unless he meant that in the sense that sane people are not preoccupied with their theological positions while in combat situations (and hence are not, at the moment, "Atheists" or "Christians" or "Buddhists" or...) the statement you're quoting is not only flatly wrong but arrogant and offensive. Adam's site has numerous stories from Atheists who in fact have served in the military and fought for their country, and several of his posts have addressed this particular hateful stereotype as well. Here, also, is a link to the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers. If you see that gent again, please give him the links above.

]]> By: Christopher http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10003 Christopher Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:58:04 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10003 You might want to try mentioning that to the Atheists in the armed forces. I'm sure they'll excuse that ignorant comment... You might want to try mentioning that to the Atheists in the armed forces. I'm sure they'll excuse that ignorant comment...

]]> By: sam http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10000 sam Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:34:17 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/11/what-will-replace-religion.html#comment-10000 an elderly gent once said to me, "when your fighting in the trenches there is no such thing as an athiest" an elderly gent once said to me, "when your fighting in the trenches there is no such thing as an athiest"

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