Comments on: The Theodicy of Narnia http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:24:41 +0000 By: Matt R http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-12730 Matt R Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:53:50 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-12730 I had an interesting idea regarding this post. Perhaps C.S. Lewis did not intend that Narnia be an allegory of life on earth, but an allegory of the life of the average human or someone C.S. knew or maybe even C.S. himself. There are many people who have long periods of happiness in their life interrupted by patches of difficulty. Perhaps this was Lewis' meaning. I recognize that there are those who live in difficult places, but I have been to these places and find that, rather than despairing at their misfortune, these people have found reason to rejoice and be happy notheless. Maybe C.S. is saying that we must not let the difficult parts of our lives ruin our whole life. We will encounter hardship, to be sure, but we must not let the hardship dominate or define our lives. Perhaps this is a stretch, but I think it does work. Cheers, Matt R. I had an interesting idea regarding this post. Perhaps C.S. Lewis did not intend that Narnia be an allegory of life on earth, but an allegory of the life of the average human or someone C.S. knew or maybe even C.S. himself.

There are many people who have long periods of happiness in their life interrupted by patches of difficulty. Perhaps this was Lewis' meaning. I recognize that there are those who live in difficult places, but I have been to these places and find that, rather than despairing at their misfortune, these people have found reason to rejoice and be happy notheless.

Maybe C.S. is saying that we must not let the difficult parts of our lives ruin our whole life. We will encounter hardship, to be sure, but we must not let the hardship dominate or define our lives.

Perhaps this is a stretch, but I think it does work.

Cheers,

Matt R.

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-11675 Ebonmuse Thu, 04 Jan 2007 02:31:58 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-11675 <blockquote>HItler wasn't an atheist? He did not believe in God.</blockquote> That claim is a fantasy unsupported by any evidence. Hitler repeatedly claimed to believe in God both in public and in private and never said he was an atheist in any record that we know of. <blockquote>Hitler also threw preachers into prison.</blockquote> Yes, just as many religious people throughout history have persecuted other religious people who believed different things. Or do you suppose that the Spanish Inquisition, the Taliban, and the Puritan witch-hunters were all atheists? Your comments are off topic in this thread. If you want to continue this discussion, you may do so in the post I previously cited.

HItler wasn't an atheist? He did not believe in God.

That claim is a fantasy unsupported by any evidence. Hitler repeatedly claimed to believe in God both in public and in private and never said he was an atheist in any record that we know of.

Hitler also threw preachers into prison.

Yes, just as many religious people throughout history have persecuted other religious people who believed different things. Or do you suppose that the Spanish Inquisition, the Taliban, and the Puritan witch-hunters were all atheists?

Your comments are off topic in this thread. If you want to continue this discussion, you may do so in the post I previously cited.

]]> By: Ben Boyd http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-11673 Ben Boyd Thu, 04 Jan 2007 02:09:14 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-11673 HItler wasn't an atheist? He did not believe in God. The Definition of atheist is one who believes there is no god. I have read your little article you gave me. It seems that you have misunderstood him. "Evil will trimuph when good men do nothing" Edmund Burke. I would like to tell you that Hitler thought himself to be God, and thus any commandment to obey god would beneficiary to his cause. Hitler also threw preachers into prison. Have you ever heard of the "Why We Fight" series? HItler wasn't an atheist? He did not believe in God. The Definition of atheist is one who believes there is no god. I have read your little article you gave me. It seems that you have misunderstood him. "Evil will trimuph when good men do nothing" Edmund Burke. I would like to tell you that Hitler thought himself to be God, and thus any commandment to obey god would beneficiary to his cause. Hitler also threw preachers into prison. Have you ever heard of the "Why We Fight" series?

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10832 Ebonmuse Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:19:01 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10832 <blockquote> I found Lewis apologetics in Mere Christianity nothing short of brilliant...</blockquote> Then I suggest you <a href="http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/books/merechristianity.html" rel="nofollow">take another look</a>. Lewis' style of apologetics is breezy at best, and when there are significant flaws in his argument (like the ludicrous assertion that every culture throughout history has had essentially the same moral code), his usual response is simply to ignore them.

I found Lewis apologetics in Mere Christianity nothing short of brilliant...

Then I suggest you take another look. Lewis' style of apologetics is breezy at best, and when there are significant flaws in his argument (like the ludicrous assertion that every culture throughout history has had essentially the same moral code), his usual response is simply to ignore them.

]]> By: Webuffy http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10826 Webuffy Mon, 18 Dec 2006 20:54:10 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10826 I never really got in to Narnia - I think I was to much a LOTR reader to want yet another fantasy world. I found Lewis apologetics in Mere Christianity nothing short of brilliant; and even if one doesn't believe in an almighty God the case he makes is compelling. His own experience of faith is detailed in his autobio., an interesting read, which was the last book he wrote titled Surprised by Joy. His search for God actually began with a search for joy, something on a higher level than mere happiness. The book tells how he began to shift from being an atheist to a theist - slowly and agonizingly. Quote from the book: "In reading Chesterton, as in reading MacDonald, I did not know what I was letting myself in for. A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. . . . God is, if I may say it, very unscrupulous." Chesterton wrote The Everlasting Man, a portrait of Christ and of his impact on history. For me, Lewis remains as a mentor and helps me bridge the chasm in my own belief which always exists between faith and reason. I never really got in to Narnia - I think I was to much a LOTR reader to want yet another fantasy world. I found Lewis apologetics in Mere Christianity nothing short of brilliant; and even if one doesn't believe in an almighty God the case he makes is compelling. His own experience of faith is detailed in his autobio., an interesting read, which was the last book he wrote titled Surprised by Joy. His search for God actually began with a search for joy, something on a higher level than mere happiness. The book tells how he began to shift from being an atheist to a theist - slowly and agonizingly. Quote from the book: "In reading Chesterton, as in reading MacDonald, I did not know what I was letting myself in for. A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. . . . God is, if I may say it, very unscrupulous." Chesterton wrote The Everlasting Man, a portrait of Christ and of his impact on history. For me, Lewis remains as a mentor and helps me bridge the chasm in my own belief which always exists between faith and reason.

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10766 Ebonmuse Sat, 16 Dec 2006 19:56:37 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10766 Adolf Hitler was <a href="/2006/08/hitler-atheist.html" rel="nofollow">categorically not an atheist</a>. Adolf Hitler was categorically not an atheist.

]]> By: Ben Boyd http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10765 Ben Boyd Sat, 16 Dec 2006 19:51:28 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10765 You are quite sure that this world is full of war and strife, but hen I might ask who causes such strife? War is a consequence of man. Man is all together Evil, and without God with have such men as Hitler, and Stalin. Hitler killed 6 million jews, and he was an atheist. (Not to put you in the same category.) In "The Magician's Nephew", Lewis writes that Aslan tells them that Kirke and Polly brought the Witch (Evil) This is not an attack either, but reminds us that We brought evil into the world. I would disagree that he is attacking Christianity. You have to understand that there is a War, an eternal war between Good and Evil. Understanding that will make you understand that there is no way of keeping a everlasting peace which can not exist until the Prince of Peace returns. <!-- Links: 0 Link text: 0 Total: 644 Ratio: 0 --> You are quite sure that this world is full of war and strife, but hen I might ask who causes such strife? War is a consequence of man. Man is all together Evil, and without God with have such men as Hitler, and Stalin. Hitler killed 6 million jews, and he was an atheist. (Not to put you in the same category.) In "The Magician's Nephew", Lewis writes that Aslan tells them that Kirke and Polly brought the Witch (Evil) This is not an attack either, but reminds us that We brought evil into the world. I would disagree that he is attacking Christianity. You have to understand that there is a War, an eternal war between Good and Evil. Understanding that will make you understand that there is no way of keeping a everlasting peace which can not exist until the Prince of Peace returns.

]]> By: you there http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10668 you there Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:08:41 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10668 I think there are other more damning "improvements" that Lewis made to the Christian story. For instance, having Aslan willingly give himself up, rather than being betrayed by his friends while in hiding. That changes the dyanmic a bit. <!-- Links: 0 Link text: 0 Total: 200 Ratio: 0 --> I think there are other more damning "improvements" that Lewis made to the Christian story. For instance, having Aslan willingly give himself up, rather than being betrayed by his friends while in hiding. That changes the dyanmic a bit.

]]> By: speedwell http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10638 speedwell Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:26:54 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10638 That should say <i>worldliness.</i> OK, back to work. :) <!-- Links: 0 Link text: 0 Total: 48 Ratio: 0 --> That should say worldliness. OK, back to work. :)

]]> By: speedwell http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10637 speedwell Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:25:12 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/12/the-theodicy-of-narnia.html#comment-10637 "Problem of Susan?" It's only a problem if you fail to realize that Narnia is not a world mappable onto our world, but more an image of childhood and innocence. Peter, older than Susan but still in touch with his innocence and still in sight of ideals of a chivalric age, didn't lose the right to come back, you will notice. It's not just sex that constituted Susan's "problem," it's <i>wordliness,</i> not so much in the Christian sense as in the sophisticated, tiresome, wannabe-grown-up self-denial sense. There simply wasn't much of the original Susan left to bring back by that time. Poor Lewis, who suffered so much from the loss of innocence in his own life (the public schools he went to were notoriously abusive to a sensitive, intelligent boy like him and like so many others), remained an idealistic man throughout his life. Aslan is not Jesus Christ; he's what Lewis wished Christ was really like. If I lived in Narnia, I would find it pretty easy to be religious, if religion consisted merely of belief in Aslan's role in history. Which, as a previous commenter pointed out, is only part of the issue. I frequently mention in chats with fellow atheists that it looks very much to me as though Lewis became an atheist because it was the sophisticated, worldly, angry-young-man thing to do. In other words, he drew Susan from his own experience of himself. I wonder if he considered himself lost to innocence in the same way Susan was lost to Narnia. I think it's likely. <!-- Links: 0 Link text: 0 Total: 1236 Ratio: 0 --> "Problem of Susan?" It's only a problem if you fail to realize that Narnia is not a world mappable onto our world, but more an image of childhood and innocence. Peter, older than Susan but still in touch with his innocence and still in sight of ideals of a chivalric age, didn't lose the right to come back, you will notice. It's not just sex that constituted Susan's "problem," it's wordliness, not so much in the Christian sense as in the sophisticated, tiresome, wannabe-grown-up self-denial sense. There simply wasn't much of the original Susan left to bring back by that time.

Poor Lewis, who suffered so much from the loss of innocence in his own life (the public schools he went to were notoriously abusive to a sensitive, intelligent boy like him and like so many others), remained an idealistic man throughout his life. Aslan is not Jesus Christ; he's what Lewis wished Christ was really like. If I lived in Narnia, I would find it pretty easy to be religious, if religion consisted merely of belief in Aslan's role in history. Which, as a previous commenter pointed out, is only part of the issue.

I frequently mention in chats with fellow atheists that it looks very much to me as though Lewis became an atheist because it was the sophisticated, worldly, angry-young-man thing to do. In other words, he drew Susan from his own experience of himself. I wonder if he considered himself lost to innocence in the same way Susan was lost to Narnia. I think it's likely.

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