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	<title>Comments on: How to Think Critically I</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon,  1 Dec 2008 16:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: OMGF</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-36458</link>
		<dc:creator>OMGF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-36458</guid>
		<description>bipolar,
It starts even before Paul.  The "sin" of Adam and Eve was eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  The inescapable conclusion is the knowledge is a bad thing, that god wants us to be ignorant savages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bipolar,<br />
It starts even before Paul.  The "sin" of Adam and Eve was eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  The inescapable conclusion is the knowledge is a bad thing, that god wants us to be ignorant savages.</p>
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		<title>By: bipolar2</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-36452</link>
		<dc:creator>bipolar2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-36452</guid>
		<description>** reason doesn't work against fideism **

For 2,000 years one hallmark of xianity has remained its hatred of natural science and skeptical philosophy. The Stoics and Epicureans of Athens laughed at Paul of Tarsus when he spoke to them. Paul's anti-intellectual rejoinder is still holy writ:

20-Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21-For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22-Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23-but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles . . . . 1Cor1 20-23 NIV

In short, Paul and his fellow revenge seekers created a god sharing their nihilistic valuations.

27-But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28-He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are . . . . 1Cor1:26-28 NIV

Xianity still appeals to those who believe themselves mistreated. To those in whom resentment surges. To those who must punish their guilty selves. To those who must blame others.

Xianity is practical nihilism. Directed inward, hatred of self. Directed outward, hatred of others and the world.

Psychologically I don't see much difference between the Taliban in Afghanistan and bible-worshipers (fundies) spread like pond scum across the US. Without a vigorously enforced secular state, you and I would burn at the stake or receive a bullet in the head for disbelief.

For all true believers, this is their doctrine: "those not with us are against us" Luke 11:23 NIV

Their fideistic hatred is not some peripheral ideological stance -- it is the dark heart and sick soul of Paul's life-negating world view, tarted up as a religion of "love".

bipolar2
© 2008</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>** reason doesn't work against fideism **</p>
<p>For 2,000 years one hallmark of xianity has remained its hatred of natural science and skeptical philosophy. The Stoics and Epicureans of Athens laughed at Paul of Tarsus when he spoke to them. Paul's anti-intellectual rejoinder is still holy writ:</p>
<p>20-Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21-For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22-Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23-but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles . . . . 1Cor1 20-23 NIV</p>
<p>In short, Paul and his fellow revenge seekers created a god sharing their nihilistic valuations.</p>
<p>27-But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28-He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are . . . . 1Cor1:26-28 NIV</p>
<p>Xianity still appeals to those who believe themselves mistreated. To those in whom resentment surges. To those who must punish their guilty selves. To those who must blame others.</p>
<p>Xianity is practical nihilism. Directed inward, hatred of self. Directed outward, hatred of others and the world.</p>
<p>Psychologically I don't see much difference between the Taliban in Afghanistan and bible-worshipers (fundies) spread like pond scum across the US. Without a vigorously enforced secular state, you and I would burn at the stake or receive a bullet in the head for disbelief.</p>
<p>For all true believers, this is their doctrine: "those not with us are against us" Luke 11:23 NIV</p>
<p>Their fideistic hatred is not some peripheral ideological stance -- it is the dark heart and sick soul of Paul's life-negating world view, tarted up as a religion of "love".</p>
<p>bipolar2<br />
© 2008</p>
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		<title>By: bitbutter</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-31413</link>
		<dc:creator>bitbutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-31413</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Yes, if a person is already committed to a set of non-evidence-based beliefs, the critical thinking method described in this post will lead to incorrect conclusions. The problem is that those preexisting irrational beliefs got in "under the gate", so to speak. &lt;b&gt;Those beliefs were not originally formed using the method described in this post&lt;/b&gt;, and that will contaminate their belief pool and bias future judgments by skewing their notions of what is extraordinary. For this method to work, it has to be used consistently, and all a person's beliefs have to be formed in this way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I believe that the part i emboldened does not usually describe how the theist comes to hold his set of beliefs. I've come to believe that it is possible to accept christianity without ever irrationally preferring a more extraordinary claim over a less amazing one.

This is made possible by the fact that rational assessment is a less powerful tool for keeping out false beliefs if a person's belief set is small. Further: it's arguable that most of us start out with a belief that our guardians are trustworthy (for good evolutionary reasons). These two things combined allow the rational acceptance of god claims by children.

I made an animated video about it here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LAUU9xG6OLQ

('belief audit' is an excellent phrase!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yes, if a person is already committed to a set of non-evidence-based beliefs, the critical thinking method described in this post will lead to incorrect conclusions. The problem is that those preexisting irrational beliefs got in "under the gate", so to speak. <b>Those beliefs were not originally formed using the method described in this post</b>, and that will contaminate their belief pool and bias future judgments by skewing their notions of what is extraordinary. For this method to work, it has to be used consistently, and all a person's beliefs have to be formed in this way.</p></blockquote>
<p>I believe that the part i emboldened does not usually describe how the theist comes to hold his set of beliefs. I've come to believe that it is possible to accept christianity without ever irrationally preferring a more extraordinary claim over a less amazing one.</p>
<p>This is made possible by the fact that rational assessment is a less powerful tool for keeping out false beliefs if a person's belief set is small. Further: it's arguable that most of us start out with a belief that our guardians are trustworthy (for good evolutionary reasons). These two things combined allow the rational acceptance of god claims by children.</p>
<p>I made an animated video about it here: <a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LAUU9xG6OLQ" rel="nofollow">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LAUU9xG6OLQ</a></p>
<p>('belief audit' is an excellent phrase!)</p>
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		<title>By: Polly</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22738</link>
		<dc:creator>Polly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22738</guid>
		<description>In auditing terminology, there was a breakdown in the control process. Beliefs that have "slipped in under the gate" can only be found using "detection" procedures one by one and then remediated. 
This is a difficult thing. It involves a continuous process of evaluating one's assumptions to see if anything was accepted without applying scrutiny. Presuppositions are not limited to issues of faith. I have a few issues that I should probably re-visit, just to make sure I'm up to speed. 
I look forward to that post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In auditing terminology, there was a breakdown in the control process. Beliefs that have "slipped in under the gate" can only be found using "detection" procedures one by one and then remediated.<br />
This is a difficult thing. It involves a continuous process of evaluating one's assumptions to see if anything was accepted without applying scrutiny. Presuppositions are not limited to issues of faith. I have a few issues that I should probably re-visit, just to make sure I'm up to speed.<br />
I look forward to that post.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22734</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22734</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This approach fails if someone already has a body of beliefs - from their point of view, accepted facts - that don't match reality. In that case, the quick plausibility test will lead to a growing body of beliefs that support their superstition, and suspicion of any evidence against them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. :)

Yes, if a person is already committed to a set of non-evidence-based beliefs, the critical thinking method described in this post will lead to incorrect conclusions. The problem is that those preexisting irrational beliefs got in "under the gate", so to speak. Those beliefs were not originally formed using the method described in this post, and that will contaminate their belief pool and bias future judgments by skewing their notions of what is extraordinary. For this method to work, it has to be used consistently, and all a person's beliefs have to be formed in this way.

So what's to be done about the person who holds some evidence-based beliefs and some that are not, and wants to tell the two apart so that they can eliminate the latter? Well, that will just have to be the topic of a future post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>This approach fails if someone already has a body of beliefs - from their point of view, accepted facts - that don't match reality. In that case, the quick plausibility test will lead to a growing body of beliefs that support their superstition, and suspicion of any evidence against them.</p></blockquote>
<p>I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. :)</p>
<p>Yes, if a person is already committed to a set of non-evidence-based beliefs, the critical thinking method described in this post will lead to incorrect conclusions. The problem is that those preexisting irrational beliefs got in "under the gate", so to speak. Those beliefs were not originally formed using the method described in this post, and that will contaminate their belief pool and bias future judgments by skewing their notions of what is extraordinary. For this method to work, it has to be used consistently, and all a person's beliefs have to be formed in this way.</p>
<p>So what's to be done about the person who holds some evidence-based beliefs and some that are not, and wants to tell the two apart so that they can eliminate the latter? Well, that will just have to be the topic of a future post.</p>
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		<title>By: Polly</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22726</link>
		<dc:creator>Polly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22726</guid>
		<description>@Shishberg:
You hit the nail on the head. If I do say so myself, my critical thinking skills were not impaired (beyond the norm for the USA) as a fundie. I simply had never encountered any reasons to doubt my preexisting set of "facts": that all the Gospels were written by eye-witnesses or dictated by them. And, that all the early eye-witnesses died horrible deaths because of their testimony about a risen JC, blah, blah, blah. Once these "facts" became open, wide-open, to doubt, the structure began to crumble. My belief in the entirety of the Bible branched out from the resurrection of JC. So, OT atrocities had to be accepted depsite being completely irreconcilable with morality.

Another innoculation against new data that hinders believers is the "strong delusion" that's prevalant in the "World." If a fact contradicts the scriptures it must be the result of a conspiracy masterminded by Satan using human dupes, the "worldly."
 I felt the weight and force of several Bible verses counteracting my attempts at self-education on the origins of Chrisitanity very, very strongly. I kept asking myself if I was being tricked by these "scholars."
But, logic kept telling me that it was those verses that were tricking me, that it was the Bible that was making bold assertions without proof and asking me to suspend reason, which is a necessary precursor to being deceived. 
The phrase "clever sounding arguments" from a verse warning about going astray passed through my mind often. As did, "thinking themselves wise, they became fools instead" and "always seeking wisdom but never finding the Truth" and a bunch of others. Oh yeah and the always popular, "the fool says in his heart, there is no God"

And then there's the unpardonable sin, which many believe is rejecting JC after having had a "taste of the glory of the Son" and then rejecting him thus, "crucifying him all over again and trampling the Holy blood underfoot."
Heavy words! I am hellbound without hope of clemency! 

Needless to say I'm not worried.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Shishberg:<br />
You hit the nail on the head. If I do say so myself, my critical thinking skills were not impaired (beyond the norm for the USA) as a fundie. I simply had never encountered any reasons to doubt my preexisting set of "facts": that all the Gospels were written by eye-witnesses or dictated by them. And, that all the early eye-witnesses died horrible deaths because of their testimony about a risen JC, blah, blah, blah. Once these "facts" became open, wide-open, to doubt, the structure began to crumble. My belief in the entirety of the Bible branched out from the resurrection of JC. So, OT atrocities had to be accepted depsite being completely irreconcilable with morality.</p>
<p>Another innoculation against new data that hinders believers is the "strong delusion" that's prevalant in the "World." If a fact contradicts the scriptures it must be the result of a conspiracy masterminded by Satan using human dupes, the "worldly."<br />
 I felt the weight and force of several Bible verses counteracting my attempts at self-education on the origins of Chrisitanity very, very strongly. I kept asking myself if I was being tricked by these "scholars."<br />
But, logic kept telling me that it was those verses that were tricking me, that it was the Bible that was making bold assertions without proof and asking me to suspend reason, which is a necessary precursor to being deceived.<br />
The phrase "clever sounding arguments" from a verse warning about going astray passed through my mind often. As did, "thinking themselves wise, they became fools instead" and "always seeking wisdom but never finding the Truth" and a bunch of others. Oh yeah and the always popular, "the fool says in his heart, there is no God"</p>
<p>And then there's the unpardonable sin, which many believe is rejecting JC after having had a "taste of the glory of the Son" and then rejecting him thus, "crucifying him all over again and trampling the Holy blood underfoot."<br />
Heavy words! I am hellbound without hope of clemency! </p>
<p>Needless to say I'm not worried.</p>
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		<title>By: Shishberg</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22725</link>
		<dc:creator>Shishberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22725</guid>
		<description>Token on-topic comment: Yeah, a print-only stylesheet would be great.

And now the diversion... I tend to think that, for some people at least, the reason it's so hard to get out of superstition isn't that they lack critical thinking skills, but that their body of prior knowledge is skewed towards facts that support the wrong conclusions. As you said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The quickest and most reliable way to judge the plausibility of some startling new claim is to check whether it fits in with other facts that are already known. The more numerous and the more well-established are the facts which a new claim contradicts, the stronger the evidence for that claim must be in order for it to overturn conventional wisdom and be accepted.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This approach fails if someone already has a body of beliefs - from their point of view, accepted facts - that don't match reality. In that case, the quick plausibility test will lead to a growing body of beliefs that support their superstition, and suspicion of any evidence against them. I think this is what happens in most people who are raised in a religion - the existing body of "facts" are presented before they reach the point of being able to evaluate them critically.

For example, for someone who was brought up as a Christian, there's an existing body of "facts": Jesus was raised from the dead, prayer works, my dead relatives are in a Better Place, etc. If someone claims that there's no such thing as god, it conflicts with a huge body of pre-existing knowledge, and will be rejected as nonsense. The only way to get that idea past the nonsense filter is to start questioning the accepted collection of "facts" one by one, which is a big task.

At least, that was my experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Token on-topic comment: Yeah, a print-only stylesheet would be great.</p>
<p>And now the diversion... I tend to think that, for some people at least, the reason it's so hard to get out of superstition isn't that they lack critical thinking skills, but that their body of prior knowledge is skewed towards facts that support the wrong conclusions. As you said:</p>
<blockquote><p>The quickest and most reliable way to judge the plausibility of some startling new claim is to check whether it fits in with other facts that are already known. The more numerous and the more well-established are the facts which a new claim contradicts, the stronger the evidence for that claim must be in order for it to overturn conventional wisdom and be accepted.</p></blockquote>
<p>This approach fails if someone already has a body of beliefs - from their point of view, accepted facts - that don't match reality. In that case, the quick plausibility test will lead to a growing body of beliefs that support their superstition, and suspicion of any evidence against them. I think this is what happens in most people who are raised in a religion - the existing body of "facts" are presented before they reach the point of being able to evaluate them critically.</p>
<p>For example, for someone who was brought up as a Christian, there's an existing body of "facts": Jesus was raised from the dead, prayer works, my dead relatives are in a Better Place, etc. If someone claims that there's no such thing as god, it conflicts with a huge body of pre-existing knowledge, and will be rejected as nonsense. The only way to get that idea past the nonsense filter is to start questioning the accepted collection of "facts" one by one, which is a big task.</p>
<p>At least, that was my experience.</p>
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		<title>By: James Bradbury</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22718</link>
		<dc:creator>James Bradbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22718</guid>
		<description>It's possible to specify a print stylesheet when designing a page which &lt;strike&gt;will&lt;/strike&gt; &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; automatically be used whenever someone presses print. In theory it could specify a very minimalist banner, no comments and no sidebar.

I'll put it on my to-do list. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's possible to specify a print stylesheet when designing a page which <strike>will</strike> <i>should</i> automatically be used whenever someone presses print. In theory it could specify a very minimalist banner, no comments and no sidebar.</p>
<p>I'll put it on my to-do list. :)</p>
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		<title>By: John P</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22714</link>
		<dc:creator>John P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2007 00:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22714</guid>
		<description>Good idea. I personally print these often, but using Firefox, I use Print Preview first, then print only those pages that I want. Usually the last 4 pages can be skipped, as they are the Recent Posts, Blogroll, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good idea. I personally print these often, but using Firefox, I use Print Preview first, then print only those pages that I want. Usually the last 4 pages can be skipped, as they are the Recent Posts, Blogroll, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22712</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 16:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/03/how-to-think-critically-i.html#comment-22712</guid>
		<description>I'll see what I can do about implementing a printer-friendly mode.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll see what I can do about implementing a printer-friendly mode.</p>
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