Comments on: Lightbringers http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:15:54 +0000 By: Matt R http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25277 Matt R Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:32:53 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25277 Lynet, <blockquote>Agreed. It would be difficult to find meaning in a life with no challenges. Still, I think it's possible to create a world with far less poverty than we currently have. And I think utopian visions are useful, even when they're unrealistic, because they can convey ideas about what's important and give us inspiration for ways to improve.</blockquote> I agree with what you have said as well. I believe that the concept of utopian visions will continue to change as humans overcome current challenges, then new ones crop up. I also think that this progression will not necessarily be linear. I think that there will perennial challenges that crop up from time to time, and I also think there will always be conflict between unscrupulous people and society. Cheers, matt Lynet,

Agreed. It would be difficult to find meaning in a life with no challenges. Still, I think it's possible to create a world with far less poverty than we currently have. And I think utopian visions are useful, even when they're unrealistic, because they can convey ideas about what's important and give us inspiration for ways to improve.

I agree with what you have said as well. I believe that the concept of utopian visions will continue to change as humans overcome current challenges, then new ones crop up. I also think that this progression will not necessarily be linear. I think that there will perennial challenges that crop up from time to time, and I also think there will always be conflict between unscrupulous people and society.

Cheers,

matt

]]> By: Lynet http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25274 Lynet Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:11:10 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25274 <blockquote>There is an important lesson here, which is that instead of trying to do everything and failing, and thus achieving nothing at all, we should choose one or a few areas in which we can do the most good for our fellow human beings and concentrate on those areas.</blockquote> <i>Very</i> inspiring :) <blockquote>I am not sure that there is a "there" to "get to". I think that as long as there are people trying to survive, there will always be struggles of various sorts to overcome. I think it is reasonable to think that there are individual problems we will overcome, but I do not see a time when there are no challenges or problems.</blockquote> Agreed. It would be difficult to find meaning in a life with no challenges. Still, I think it's possible to create a world with far less poverty than we currently have. And I think utopian visions are useful, even when they're unrealistic, because they can convey ideas about what's important and give us inspiration for ways to improve.

There is an important lesson here, which is that instead of trying to do everything and failing, and thus achieving nothing at all, we should choose one or a few areas in which we can do the most good for our fellow human beings and concentrate on those areas.

Very inspiring :)

I am not sure that there is a "there" to "get to". I think that as long as there are people trying to survive, there will always be struggles of various sorts to overcome. I think it is reasonable to think that there are individual problems we will overcome, but I do not see a time when there are no challenges or problems.

Agreed. It would be difficult to find meaning in a life with no challenges. Still, I think it's possible to create a world with far less poverty than we currently have. And I think utopian visions are useful, even when they're unrealistic, because they can convey ideas about what's important and give us inspiration for ways to improve.

]]> By: Matt R http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25265 Matt R Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:12:16 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25265 Hello all, I tend to agree with Ebonmuse in doubting that we will make Earth uninhabitable any time soon. I also am very sad to see the beauty of nature continually consumed by the ever-growing appetite of humanity. I think that it will take several generations of hard work to make our existence more compatible with a healthy natural environment. I think that some key components of this change will be: 1) Educating children before they develop habits which are unhealthy for the environment 2) Making ecologically healthy living economically accessible for the common person 3) Fostering a love of the natural world so that people naturally want to protect it Those are the "top three" that I can come up with off of the top of my head. Thoughts? <blockquote>I agree with you I have great "faith" in the human race, and I think we will "get there" one day</blockquote> I am not sure that there is a "there" to "get to". I think that as long as there are people trying to survive, there will always be struggles of various sorts to overcome. I think it is reasonable to think that there are individual problems we will overcome, but I do not see a time when there are no challenges or problems. Cheers, Matt Hello all,

I tend to agree with Ebonmuse in doubting that we will make Earth uninhabitable any time soon. I also am very sad to see the beauty of nature continually consumed by the ever-growing appetite of humanity. I think that it will take several generations of hard work to make our existence more compatible with a healthy natural environment. I think that some key components of this change will be:

1) Educating children before they develop habits which are unhealthy for the environment

2) Making ecologically healthy living economically accessible for the common person

3) Fostering a love of the natural world so that people naturally want to protect it

Those are the "top three" that I can come up with off of the top of my head. Thoughts?

I agree with you I have great "faith" in the human race, and I think we will "get there" one day

I am not sure that there is a "there" to "get to". I think that as long as there are people trying to survive, there will always be struggles of various sorts to overcome. I think it is reasonable to think that there are individual problems we will overcome, but I do not see a time when there are no challenges or problems.

Cheers,

Matt

]]> By: Vicki Baker http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25264 Vicki Baker Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:10:30 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25264 Ebonmuse, I very much appreciated this post. It is a good reminder to be the change you want to see in the world. Further musings: I remember a few weeks back there was a discussion about whether altruism "really" is due to selfish motivation. When I think of examples of "noble souls" that I have come in contact with, I think for them the duality of selfish/altruism barely exists. For example, they don't dwell on having sacrificed a lucrative career in medicine to work at a clinic in some poor country, instead they appreciate the richness of their experience and the feeling of doing something meaningful. And I agree with your last comment too. It is not about sacrificing our goodies, like cars or whatever, in order to altruistically "save the earth," but instead a question of how unpleasant we are going to make it for each other. Ebonmuse, I very much appreciated this post. It is a good reminder to be the change you want to see in the world.
Further musings: I remember a few weeks back there was a discussion about whether altruism "really" is due to selfish motivation. When I think of examples of "noble souls" that I have come in contact with, I think for them the duality of selfish/altruism barely exists. For example, they don't dwell on having sacrificed a lucrative career in medicine to work at a clinic in some poor country, instead they appreciate the richness of their experience and the feeling of doing something meaningful. And I agree with your last comment too. It is not about sacrificing our goodies, like cars or whatever, in order to altruistically "save the earth," but instead a question of how unpleasant we are going to make it for each other.

]]> By: evanescent http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25263 evanescent Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:00:42 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25263 Really well written! Great post. I agree with you I have great "faith" in the human race, and I think we will "get there" one day, but it won't just happen by sitting back and hoping. I think the human race has great things in its future, but only if we strive to make the world a better place. It's a long journey, but the smallest step etc etc. Living our own lives the right way is a great place to start. Really well written! Great post.

I agree with you I have great "faith" in the human race, and I think we will "get there" one day, but it won't just happen by sitting back and hoping. I think the human race has great things in its future, but only if we strive to make the world a better place. It's a long journey, but the smallest step etc etc. Living our own lives the right way is a great place to start.

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25262 Ebonmuse Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:40:51 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25262 Speed, I don't think the issue is one of survival. Humanity's existence as a species is not at risk, not even from potential global disasters like climate change. Nor is there any possibility that we will make the planet unlivable, though we have damaged it greatly and caused the extinction of some large, charismatic species. We are not going to destroy life on this planet. The question is how badly we will degrade it and impoverish our own living environment. If we stop the unwise things we are doing soon, we stand to inherit a future with much biological richness and possibility for peaceful, sustainable living. If we don't stop, we will disrupt many more ecosystems, wipe out more species that can never be replaced, and give our descendants a polluted, damaged, far less beautiful and glorious biosphere. Either way, we'll still be here and so will the Earth. It's just a question of what <i>kind</i> of Earth there will be. Speed, I don't think the issue is one of survival. Humanity's existence as a species is not at risk, not even from potential global disasters like climate change. Nor is there any possibility that we will make the planet unlivable, though we have damaged it greatly and caused the extinction of some large, charismatic species.

We are not going to destroy life on this planet. The question is how badly we will degrade it and impoverish our own living environment. If we stop the unwise things we are doing soon, we stand to inherit a future with much biological richness and possibility for peaceful, sustainable living. If we don't stop, we will disrupt many more ecosystems, wipe out more species that can never be replaced, and give our descendants a polluted, damaged, far less beautiful and glorious biosphere. Either way, we'll still be here and so will the Earth. It's just a question of what kind of Earth there will be.

]]> By: Speed http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25261 Speed Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:06:30 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25261 Alex - Yes, but until recently humanity never had the ability to destroy itself completely or to make its nest (the Earth) unliveable. We are clearly doing both today. I used to be a great believer in the growth-and-technology-will-save-us line back in my 20s (I'm 40 now). But the more I learn, the more pessimistic I am. It took a long time for me to realize that alternative fuels will never provide the energy equivalent of oil (which most of the earth's population growth has been based on). Meanwhile, we're busy destroying the oceans by creating seas of plastic http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Moore-Trashed-PacificNov03.htm and watching the extinction of whales, sharks and other sealife. The tsunami that killed so many in Indonesia was made deadlier by the destruction of coral reefs and mangrove trees. And we continue to pollute ourselves with toxins and chemicals in our food, water, land, etc. I could go on, but you get the idea. Alex - Yes, but until recently humanity never had the ability to destroy itself completely or to make its nest (the Earth) unliveable. We are clearly doing both today. I used to be a great believer in the growth-and-technology-will-save-us line back in my 20s (I'm 40 now). But the more I learn, the more pessimistic I am. It took a long time for me to realize that alternative fuels will never provide the energy equivalent of oil (which most of the earth's population growth has been based on).

Meanwhile, we're busy destroying the oceans by creating seas of plastic

http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Moore-Trashed-PacificNov03.htm

and watching the extinction of whales, sharks and other sealife. The tsunami that killed so many in Indonesia was made deadlier by the destruction of coral reefs and mangrove trees. And we continue to pollute ourselves with toxins and chemicals in our food, water, land, etc. I could go on, but you get the idea.

]]> By: anti-nonsense http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25256 anti-nonsense Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:08:15 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25256 I am optimistic by nature but I find it hard to remain optimistic when it seems sometimes that all I ever hear about is doom and gloom about how we are destroying the environment and AIDS, and avian flu, and starving people in Africa, and Iran's nuclear program, and Israel and Palestine fighting each other, and the religious right gaining more power in the US......you get the idea. I worry that the world may get turned into nuclear slag within my lifetime. My dad thinks that the terrorists are going to get hold of a nuke and nuke a major US city within the next decade. I am optimistic by nature but I find it hard to remain optimistic when it seems sometimes that all I ever hear about is doom and gloom about how we are destroying the environment and AIDS, and avian flu, and starving people in Africa, and Iran's nuclear program, and Israel and Palestine fighting each other, and the religious right gaining more power in the US......you get the idea. I worry that the world may get turned into nuclear slag within my lifetime. My dad thinks that the terrorists are going to get hold of a nuke and nuke a major US city within the next decade.

]]> By: Petrucio http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25255 Petrucio Fri, 29 Jun 2007 03:12:38 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25255 I am an optimist too, and I, like George Lucas, think that "This is it. This is the revolution, and I'm in the middle of it. It's a great time to be alive." I am an optimist too, and I, like George Lucas, think that "This is it. This is the revolution, and I'm in the middle of it. It's a great time to be alive."

]]> By: Alex Weaver http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25253 Alex Weaver Fri, 29 Jun 2007 03:04:22 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/lightbringers.html#comment-25253 Speed: Humanity survived the Medieval plagues, the collapse of the Roman and other uniting empires and subsequent dark age, the ravages of the Mongols and similar raiders, and all manner of horrific natural disasters. Meanwhile, these are all problems that people are working hard to fix, and the capabilities of our technology and society are less dwarfed by what we face than at any time in the past. Don't be so quick to write us off. As for the rest...eh. I try. x.x ^.^ Speed: Humanity survived the Medieval plagues, the collapse of the Roman and other uniting empires and subsequent dark age, the ravages of the Mongols and similar raiders, and all manner of horrific natural disasters. Meanwhile, these are all problems that people are working hard to fix, and the capabilities of our technology and society are less dwarfed by what we face than at any time in the past. Don't be so quick to write us off.

As for the rest...eh. I try. x.x ^.^

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