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	<title>Comments on: On Magic(k)</title>
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	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: Snoof</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-56469</link>
		<dc:creator>Snoof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 14:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-56469</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...This, is because it raises the Angstrom Energy Level of the water and thereby increases its potency by an amount that has a very beneficial effect on all living things. For the good of your health, we unreservedly recommend that you drink this water, every day. According to Prof. Angstrom, the average healthy person has an energy level of 6.5Å to 7.0Å. In order to stay healthy, we should eat food and drink that has an energy level of seven of more Angstroms.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Let&#039;s see... if we charitably assume they&#039;re using 1Å to mean the amount of energy a photon with wavelength 1Å has... that&#039;s about what, 12 keV, or 2.0x10^-15 joules.

Not a problem! The food I eat contains far more energy than that! At best guess... I&#039;d say about eighteen, maybe nineteen orders of magnitude more.

I guess I don&#039;t need their fancy rock, then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>...This, is because it raises the Angstrom Energy Level of the water and thereby increases its potency by an amount that has a very beneficial effect on all living things. For the good of your health, we unreservedly recommend that you drink this water, every day. According to Prof. Angstrom, the average healthy person has an energy level of 6.5Å to 7.0Å. In order to stay healthy, we should eat food and drink that has an energy level of seven of more Angstroms.</p></blockquote>
<p>Let's see... if we charitably assume they're using 1Å to mean the amount of energy a photon with wavelength 1Å has... that's about what, 12 keV, or 2.0x10^-15 joules.</p>
<p>Not a problem! The food I eat contains far more energy than that! At best guess... I'd say about eighteen, maybe nineteen orders of magnitude more.</p>
<p>I guess I don't need their fancy rock, then.</p>
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		<title>By: Apocryphon</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-56463</link>
		<dc:creator>Apocryphon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 01:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-56463</guid>
		<description>Do what thou Wilt, shall be the whole of the law. 

I have to agree with you, that the majority of what people who openly proclaim themselves to practice magic(k) are nothing more than weirdos with huge inferiority complexes (often far left wing nut cases) who personify themselves as elves and wizards or whatever to get attention, and feel special. 

This however is not magic as it is described by Frazier in the Golden Bough, nor is in what Aleister Crowley meant by Magick when he coined the addition of the -k. He was interested in redeeming the ancient practices of pagan religions, when he coined that term and it was stage magic, illusionists, whom he wanted to distinguish his Mage-ick from. Later on when new-age and paganism came about and mixed with sci-fi and fantasy literature, that they decided to start misusing Crowley&#039;s spelling, in a futile attempt to make their idiocy seem legitimate. They will also use every trick and misuse of logic and the nonsense &quot;Philosophy&quot; of postmodernism which is actually a form of literary criticism gone awry, to deceive people to accept that fiction and fact are both equally legitimate forms of expression, and one as good as the other. The will use these and any number of self deceptive devices, anything to make themselves feel superior. 

Anyway on to what did Crowley mean by Magick when he coined the term. It was not the use of supernatural means to achieve natural goals which Crowley was interested in teaching. Rather what he meant by Magick was, the science of doing what you set your mind upon in the most efficient means possible. It is the science of introspection and self-observation to discover which of ones desires are beneficial and which are harmful habits of though or are based on phobias, anxieties, delusions, or just false information that one is taught or acquired in life. Then to learn the self discipline to re-direct oneself towards one&#039;s True WILL, rather than to waste your energy on those distractions, false beliefs, psychological complexes, etc which lead you into trouble. In short, Magick is meant to be the art and science of living you life more effectively. 

In science the Truth is sought by seeing if your stated hypothesis is supported by the experiment, where as Magick the hypothesis is accepted if it aids one&#039;s higher purpose. The explanation of why that action aids one or hinders one&#039;s achievement of the TRUE WILL, that is to say in living ones life effectively, is not relevant. If you know the true explanation for why certain actions achieve what you WILL, that is well and good. However, if you do not know, you may rely on a myth or supernatural explanation. 

Which is to say Magick is science aimed at self discovery and application of one&#039;s skills to live an effective life. It is a science of personal ethics, rather than a science of objective truth seeking. 

It is however true that in almost all cases one lives a better life, if one knows the truth, that if one believes in myths and supernatural explanations, thus when the physical sciences establish a strong explanation that displaces the mythic one, the wise magician will accept the physics in place of the myth. 

However it is known that the mind reacts differently to poetic expressions than appear in myth than to linear science, that personification has more emotional and intuitive content. Thus to know the physics and yet to express it ritually in poetic metaphor, helps to stimulate the whole brain to engage the material, rather than just the strictly logical thinking part of the brain. 

So when Magick is properly understood and practiced, it is a science in that it takes note of one&#039;s actions and internal reactions in controlled experiments to devise the most effective control over the psyche and over how to lead one&#039;s own life. Magick is also an Art form in that it encodes what it learns in terms of symbols, rituals, poetry and images that relate those discoveries in a form that integrates the emotional and unconscious aspects of the psyche. 

The misunderstanding and poor presentation of magick is a shame, as it attracts mentally unstable people to the field and it discourages people with healthy minds from looking deeper into the study. 

The term later used by Crowley was Scientific Illuminism, which has better associations than Magick, but has the term illuminsim since Crowley&#039;s time has come to carry notions of the Illuminati which in the watch word of conspiracy loons.

Maybe Zen and the Art of Method Acting, is a better name. Though magick is more than this.

The Logos is corrupted, we need a better word. 
Here it is 
THELEMA

Love in the law, Love under Will. 

Fr. Apocryphon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do what thou Wilt, shall be the whole of the law. </p>
<p>I have to agree with you, that the majority of what people who openly proclaim themselves to practice magic(k) are nothing more than weirdos with huge inferiority complexes (often far left wing nut cases) who personify themselves as elves and wizards or whatever to get attention, and feel special. </p>
<p>This however is not magic as it is described by Frazier in the Golden Bough, nor is in what Aleister Crowley meant by Magick when he coined the addition of the -k. He was interested in redeeming the ancient practices of pagan religions, when he coined that term and it was stage magic, illusionists, whom he wanted to distinguish his Mage-ick from. Later on when new-age and paganism came about and mixed with sci-fi and fantasy literature, that they decided to start misusing Crowley's spelling, in a futile attempt to make their idiocy seem legitimate. They will also use every trick and misuse of logic and the nonsense "Philosophy" of postmodernism which is actually a form of literary criticism gone awry, to deceive people to accept that fiction and fact are both equally legitimate forms of expression, and one as good as the other. The will use these and any number of self deceptive devices, anything to make themselves feel superior. </p>
<p>Anyway on to what did Crowley mean by Magick when he coined the term. It was not the use of supernatural means to achieve natural goals which Crowley was interested in teaching. Rather what he meant by Magick was, the science of doing what you set your mind upon in the most efficient means possible. It is the science of introspection and self-observation to discover which of ones desires are beneficial and which are harmful habits of though or are based on phobias, anxieties, delusions, or just false information that one is taught or acquired in life. Then to learn the self discipline to re-direct oneself towards one's True WILL, rather than to waste your energy on those distractions, false beliefs, psychological complexes, etc which lead you into trouble. In short, Magick is meant to be the art and science of living you life more effectively. </p>
<p>In science the Truth is sought by seeing if your stated hypothesis is supported by the experiment, where as Magick the hypothesis is accepted if it aids one's higher purpose. The explanation of why that action aids one or hinders one's achievement of the TRUE WILL, that is to say in living ones life effectively, is not relevant. If you know the true explanation for why certain actions achieve what you WILL, that is well and good. However, if you do not know, you may rely on a myth or supernatural explanation. </p>
<p>Which is to say Magick is science aimed at self discovery and application of one's skills to live an effective life. It is a science of personal ethics, rather than a science of objective truth seeking. </p>
<p>It is however true that in almost all cases one lives a better life, if one knows the truth, that if one believes in myths and supernatural explanations, thus when the physical sciences establish a strong explanation that displaces the mythic one, the wise magician will accept the physics in place of the myth. </p>
<p>However it is known that the mind reacts differently to poetic expressions than appear in myth than to linear science, that personification has more emotional and intuitive content. Thus to know the physics and yet to express it ritually in poetic metaphor, helps to stimulate the whole brain to engage the material, rather than just the strictly logical thinking part of the brain. </p>
<p>So when Magick is properly understood and practiced, it is a science in that it takes note of one's actions and internal reactions in controlled experiments to devise the most effective control over the psyche and over how to lead one's own life. Magick is also an Art form in that it encodes what it learns in terms of symbols, rituals, poetry and images that relate those discoveries in a form that integrates the emotional and unconscious aspects of the psyche. </p>
<p>The misunderstanding and poor presentation of magick is a shame, as it attracts mentally unstable people to the field and it discourages people with healthy minds from looking deeper into the study. </p>
<p>The term later used by Crowley was Scientific Illuminism, which has better associations than Magick, but has the term illuminsim since Crowley's time has come to carry notions of the Illuminati which in the watch word of conspiracy loons.</p>
<p>Maybe Zen and the Art of Method Acting, is a better name. Though magick is more than this.</p>
<p>The Logos is corrupted, we need a better word.<br />
Here it is<br />
THELEMA</p>
<p>Love in the law, Love under Will. </p>
<p>Fr. Apocryphon</p>
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		<title>By: Amy</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25251</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25251</guid>
		<description>I wish they&#039;d discover a spell or crystal that would help them with their punctuation. Sheesh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish they'd discover a spell or crystal that would help them with their punctuation. Sheesh.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25234</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 02:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25234</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I suppose I fall into this last category, as I recognize that it&#039;s all bunk, but I&#039;m kind of a sucker for elaborate ritual, so I still have most of the candles and apparati I accumulated. I suppose, anymore, it&#039;s just childish role-play, but I guess there&#039;s no harm there, as long as I recognize that.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sounds fair enough to me :)

Sounds quite fun, actually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I suppose I fall into this last category, as I recognize that it's all bunk, but I'm kind of a sucker for elaborate ritual, so I still have most of the candles and apparati I accumulated. I suppose, anymore, it's just childish role-play, but I guess there's no harm there, as long as I recognize that.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sounds fair enough to me :)</p>
<p>Sounds quite fun, actually.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25222</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25222</guid>
		<description>I was actually really into this stuff for a while, and found a number of websites like this one, or of similar bent, and they are almost all completely serious.
As to your question, Ebonmuse:&lt;blockquote&gt;One wonders, how were the methods and ingredients of this spell and others determined? Are there records of past Wiccan researchers who tried different colors of candles or cast the spell on different days of the week? Or do these practitioners simply claim to have acquired their knowledge through oracles?&lt;/blockquote&gt;They actually did test them. It works remarkably like the scientific method, but with less independant testing, and a whole lot more confirmation bias. You start with common perceptions of things, and make out a ritual, and then you test it out. Over time, passed from one person to the next, it gets tweaked and tested into an &quot;accepted&quot; form, which they believe works. The simplistic ones think they&#039;re working with improperly studied laws of nature, and the really interesting ones realize that it&#039;s all in your head, but most of them don&#039;t get past the &quot;Secret&quot; stage. Every once in a while, you get a really bright one who sees the full effect of it, and just clings to the ritual out of habit.
I suppose I fall into this last category, as I recognize that it&#039;s all bunk, but I&#039;m kind of a sucker for elaborate ritual, so I still have most of the candles and apparati I accumulated. I suppose, anymore, it&#039;s just childish role-play, but I guess there&#039;s no harm there, as long as I recognize that.
Ok, That wandered a bit more than I had hoped, so I&#039;m going to shut up for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was actually really into this stuff for a while, and found a number of websites like this one, or of similar bent, and they are almost all completely serious.<br />
As to your question, Ebonmuse:<br />
<blockquote>One wonders, how were the methods and ingredients of this spell and others determined? Are there records of past Wiccan researchers who tried different colors of candles or cast the spell on different days of the week? Or do these practitioners simply claim to have acquired their knowledge through oracles?</p></blockquote>
<p>They actually did test them. It works remarkably like the scientific method, but with less independant testing, and a whole lot more confirmation bias. You start with common perceptions of things, and make out a ritual, and then you test it out. Over time, passed from one person to the next, it gets tweaked and tested into an "accepted" form, which they believe works. The simplistic ones think they're working with improperly studied laws of nature, and the really interesting ones realize that it's all in your head, but most of them don't get past the "Secret" stage. Every once in a while, you get a really bright one who sees the full effect of it, and just clings to the ritual out of habit.<br />
I suppose I fall into this last category, as I recognize that it's all bunk, but I'm kind of a sucker for elaborate ritual, so I still have most of the candles and apparati I accumulated. I suppose, anymore, it's just childish role-play, but I guess there's no harm there, as long as I recognize that.<br />
Ok, That wandered a bit more than I had hoped, so I'm going to shut up for now.</p>
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		<title>By: aweb</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25181</link>
		<dc:creator>aweb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25181</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Have healing spells ever been compared to placebos in a double-blind scientific study? &lt;/i&gt;

Yes they have, don&#039;t you recall the study earlier this year that compared prayer receivers to non-prayer receivers, where it turned out to have no significant effect at all? If praying for healing isna&#039;t a magic healing spell, what is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Have healing spells ever been compared to placebos in a double-blind scientific study? </i></p>
<p>Yes they have, don't you recall the study earlier this year that compared prayer receivers to non-prayer receivers, where it turned out to have no significant effect at all? If praying for healing isna't a magic healing spell, what is?</p>
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		<title>By: Entomologista</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25175</link>
		<dc:creator>Entomologista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25175</guid>
		<description>The poetry! It&#039;s so bad! It burns us!

The &quot;Instant Decision Maker&quot; is interesting because one of the things Daniel Dennett claims religion was invented for was to help with very difficult decisions. 

You know, I think that there is a D&amp;D spell called Energy Shield. I know there is Negative Energy Ray and Negative Energy Burst. I bet if I mixed D&amp;D with some science words I could also swindle a bunch of noobs. Too bad I&#039;m ethically opposed to parting fools from their money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The poetry! It's so bad! It burns us!</p>
<p>The "Instant Decision Maker" is interesting because one of the things Daniel Dennett claims religion was invented for was to help with very difficult decisions. </p>
<p>You know, I think that there is a D&amp;D spell called Energy Shield. I know there is Negative Energy Ray and Negative Energy Burst. I bet if I mixed D&amp;D with some science words I could also swindle a bunch of noobs. Too bad I'm ethically opposed to parting fools from their money.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrnaglfar</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25158</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrnaglfar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 02:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25158</guid>
		<description>So magic can&#039;t stop a fist, can&#039;t cure a terminal ill patient, and probably can&#039;t cure a gun shot wound either. It doesn&#039;t seem prayer can. So what comfort(or energy) does it offer that just being there for a friend and putting a hand on their should, and telling them how much they matter wouldn&#039;t?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So magic can't stop a fist, can't cure a terminal ill patient, and probably can't cure a gun shot wound either. It doesn't seem prayer can. So what comfort(or energy) does it offer that just being there for a friend and putting a hand on their should, and telling them how much they matter wouldn't?</p>
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		<title>By: The Ridger</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25153</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ridger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25153</guid>
		<description>Fecundity? It will increase your fecundity? I hope the guys who buy it realize what that means... child support!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fecundity? It will increase your fecundity? I hope the guys who buy it realize what that means... child support!</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25150</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25150</guid>
		<description>Ric - I did consider the possibility that this site was a parody, as out there as it is. But I&#039;m pretty sure it&#039;s real. For one thing, clicking on the links to buy any of the items they&#039;re selling takes you to a shopping cart page on PayPal. I don&#039;t think a spoof site would go so far as to actually take people&#039;s money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ric - I did consider the possibility that this site was a parody, as out there as it is. But I'm pretty sure it's real. For one thing, clicking on the links to buy any of the items they're selling takes you to a shopping cart page on PayPal. I don't think a spoof site would go so far as to actually take people's money.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex, FCD</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25148</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex, FCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25148</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;    If this very special pebble is placed in a container of clear spring water it will after ten minutes or so, have a profound effect on the energy level of the water, turning it into a very powerful Healing Elixir.

    …This, is because it raises the Angstrom Energy Level of the water and thereby increases its potency by an amount that has a very beneficial effect on all living things. For the good of your health, we unreservedly recommend that you drink this water, every day. According to Prof. Angstrom, the average healthy person has an energy level of 6.5Å to 7.0Å. In order to stay healthy, we should eat food and drink that has an energy level of seven of more Angstroms. &lt;/blockquote&gt;And for $500, I&#039;ll sell you a device that will raise the kinetic energy level of clear spring water by more than 335 megajoules per litre in only a few minutes.  This process makes the water much more succeptible to dissociation with the leaves of certain ancient Indian plants, a ritual which I personally perform every morning, leaving me energized and ready to face the day.

Ok, it&#039;s a tea kettle.  But at least mine works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>    If this very special pebble is placed in a container of clear spring water it will after ten minutes or so, have a profound effect on the energy level of the water, turning it into a very powerful Healing Elixir.</p>
<p>    …This, is because it raises the Angstrom Energy Level of the water and thereby increases its potency by an amount that has a very beneficial effect on all living things. For the good of your health, we unreservedly recommend that you drink this water, every day. According to Prof. Angstrom, the average healthy person has an energy level of 6.5Å to 7.0Å. In order to stay healthy, we should eat food and drink that has an energy level of seven of more Angstroms. </p></blockquote>
<p>And for $500, I'll sell you a device that will raise the kinetic energy level of clear spring water by more than 335 megajoules per litre in only a few minutes.  This process makes the water much more succeptible to dissociation with the leaves of certain ancient Indian plants, a ritual which I personally perform every morning, leaving me energized and ready to face the day.</p>
<p>Ok, it's a tea kettle.  But at least mine works.</p>
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		<title>By: tobe38</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25147</link>
		<dc:creator>tobe38</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/on-magic.html#comment-25147</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;but on the other hand, they hold out an implicit, wink-and-nudge &quot;But hey, you never know…&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;ve felt this way about disclaimers for all supernatural practices for a long time. It&#039;s clearly there as a formality, and almost implies a greater confidence in their claims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>but on the other hand, they hold out an implicit, wink-and-nudge "But hey, you never know…"</p></blockquote>
<p>I've felt this way about disclaimers for all supernatural practices for a long time. It's clearly there as a formality, and almost implies a greater confidence in their claims.</p>
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