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	<title>Comments on: Why I Am Not a Libertarian</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: lpetrich</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-38021</link>
		<dc:creator>lpetrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-38021</guid>
		<description>I fail to see how taxes are so much more evil than bills.

And Max seems to be proposing anarchist utopianism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fail to see how taxes are so much more evil than bills.</p>
<p>And Max seems to be proposing anarchist utopianism.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-38003</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-38003</guid>
		<description>Taxation is evil for sure. Whether or not it's a necessary evil is debatable. True, coersion is definitely an easier solution, but I don't think it can be justified simply because some of us lack the creativity to properly think through a private sector solution (me inluded). I think there have been some good libertarian ideas listed above already. It's a complex philosophy and cannot be simply shrugged off (even the extreme versions) with just one article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taxation is evil for sure. Whether or not it's a necessary evil is debatable. True, coersion is definitely an easier solution, but I don't think it can be justified simply because some of us lack the creativity to properly think through a private sector solution (me inluded). I think there have been some good libertarian ideas listed above already. It's a complex philosophy and cannot be simply shrugged off (even the extreme versions) with just one article.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-35447</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 05:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-35447</guid>
		<description>That's true, Steve, but it's not the whole picture. If suffering through the effects of my own pollution costs me &lt;i&gt;less&lt;/i&gt; than it would cost me to clean up that pollution myself, then I have an incentive not to clean it up - to spread the costs out across society, rather than bearing them all myself. That's the problem of externalities, and I don't think it's one that a pure libertarian political system can adequately address.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That's true, Steve, but it's not the whole picture. If suffering through the effects of my own pollution costs me <i>less</i> than it would cost me to clean up that pollution myself, then I have an incentive not to clean it up - to spread the costs out across society, rather than bearing them all myself. That's the problem of externalities, and I don't think it's one that a pure libertarian political system can adequately address.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bowen</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-35435</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 20:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-35435</guid>
		<description>Ebonmuse
&lt;blockquote&gt;Chief among these is the concept of environmental health. We cannot partition the environment. We all drink the same water; we all breathe the same air. Rivers, streams, aquifers and oceans cross property lines, and pollutants entering the water anywhere on the planet can cause problems almost anywhere else. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Including surely, locally. If I am your hypothetical polluter I will also become a victim of that pollution (eventually). Self interest and &lt;i&gt;enlightened&lt;/i&gt; self interest are two fundementally different positions</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ebonmuse</p>
<blockquote><p>Chief among these is the concept of environmental health. We cannot partition the environment. We all drink the same water; we all breathe the same air. Rivers, streams, aquifers and oceans cross property lines, and pollutants entering the water anywhere on the planet can cause problems almost anywhere else. </p></blockquote>
<p>Including surely, locally. If I am your hypothetical polluter I will also become a victim of that pollution (eventually). Self interest and <i>enlightened</i> self interest are two fundementally different positions</p>
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		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-27964</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-27964</guid>
		<description>As a libertarian, I personally don't see the conflict with natural resources that naturally cross and/or cannot be contained to property lines. The abstraction of private property is accurate only insofar as it recognizes that fact. The water that crosses your property and the air that exists above it, while on your property, can arguably belong to you for the time it's there, but reality demands that it not be treated with the same rules as land and structures that more accurately fit the abstraction. What you do to the water and the air necessarily affects your neighbors (ultimately, your global neighbors) in coercive ways, so I personally think that polluting it can morally be made illegal in complete consistency with libertarian principles.

I may be in the minority among libertarians in that I do not think that government is a necessary evil to be distrusted and reviled. I think government is a noble and moral human institution when it is bound by proper restrictions and set to perform its proper functions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a libertarian, I personally don't see the conflict with natural resources that naturally cross and/or cannot be contained to property lines. The abstraction of private property is accurate only insofar as it recognizes that fact. The water that crosses your property and the air that exists above it, while on your property, can arguably belong to you for the time it's there, but reality demands that it not be treated with the same rules as land and structures that more accurately fit the abstraction. What you do to the water and the air necessarily affects your neighbors (ultimately, your global neighbors) in coercive ways, so I personally think that polluting it can morally be made illegal in complete consistency with libertarian principles.</p>
<p>I may be in the minority among libertarians in that I do not think that government is a necessary evil to be distrusted and reviled. I think government is a noble and moral human institution when it is bound by proper restrictions and set to perform its proper functions.</p>
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		<title>By: James Bradbury</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25259</link>
		<dc:creator>James Bradbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25259</guid>
		<description>Chris,

&lt;blockquote&gt;And governments should be mistrusted as a matter of principle&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sorry to be the grammar pedant, but I thought this distinction is worth pointing out.

Mistrust - Trusting someone unworthy of your trust.
Distrust - Not trusting someone.

I think you intended the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<blockquote><p>And governments should be mistrusted as a matter of principle</p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry to be the grammar pedant, but I thought this distinction is worth pointing out.</p>
<p>Mistrust - Trusting someone unworthy of your trust.<br />
Distrust - Not trusting someone.</p>
<p>I think you intended the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25224</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25224</guid>
		<description>Touch&#233;. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Touch&eacute;. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Bechamel</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25196</link>
		<dc:creator>Bechamel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25196</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Who thinks that people should have less freedom than they could feasibly have?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Republicans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Who thinks that people should have less freedom than they could feasibly have?</p></blockquote>
<p>Republicans?</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25187</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25187</guid>
		<description>Hello all,

Since some people think I'm painting with too broad a brush, let me clarify my position and the one this post series is arguing against.

I believe that the government is best that governs least, and freedom, both for individuals and for business, should be increased to the greatest extent possible. I also believe that the government as it currently is is far too intrusive in many areas (and this is not solely the Republicans' fault). If that's what it means to be a libertarian, then I'm a libertarian. But that position seems too broad to be the essence of what libertarianism means, because I don't know anyone who disagrees with it. Who thinks that people should have less freedom than they could feasibly have?

What I'm responding to in this essay is not just the position that less red tape is good, but a specific political philosophy which holds that private property is an inviolable right, that the only legitimate type of economic interaction is one of full and mutual consent between individuals, and that the only responsibility of government is to prevent violence or fraud. Libertarians of this type, as a general rule, believe that all taxation is a moral wrong (some go so far as to call it theft or slavery), that all social safety-net programs funded with taxation should be abolished, that all public lands and public organizations should either be dismantled or sold to the highest bidder, and that that voluntary private charity should be solely responsible for caring for the needy. In short, they advocate the furthest extreme of laissez-faire capitalism and take that as the model for all of society.

This is not a straw man: there are many people who believe exactly this. Here's an example post by &lt;a href="http://positiveliberty.com/2006/05/where’s-the-beef…really.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Timothy Sandefur&lt;/a&gt;, frequent guest author on Positive Liberty and the Panda's Thumb, which argues that there is no moral distinction between taxation and robbery. Even some &lt;a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/an-atheists-creed.html#comment-120" rel="nofollow"&gt;commenters on this site&lt;/a&gt; have expressed this view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello all,</p>
<p>Since some people think I'm painting with too broad a brush, let me clarify my position and the one this post series is arguing against.</p>
<p>I believe that the government is best that governs least, and freedom, both for individuals and for business, should be increased to the greatest extent possible. I also believe that the government as it currently is is far too intrusive in many areas (and this is not solely the Republicans' fault). If that's what it means to be a libertarian, then I'm a libertarian. But that position seems too broad to be the essence of what libertarianism means, because I don't know anyone who disagrees with it. Who thinks that people should have less freedom than they could feasibly have?</p>
<p>What I'm responding to in this essay is not just the position that less red tape is good, but a specific political philosophy which holds that private property is an inviolable right, that the only legitimate type of economic interaction is one of full and mutual consent between individuals, and that the only responsibility of government is to prevent violence or fraud. Libertarians of this type, as a general rule, believe that all taxation is a moral wrong (some go so far as to call it theft or slavery), that all social safety-net programs funded with taxation should be abolished, that all public lands and public organizations should either be dismantled or sold to the highest bidder, and that that voluntary private charity should be solely responsible for caring for the needy. In short, they advocate the furthest extreme of laissez-faire capitalism and take that as the model for all of society.</p>
<p>This is not a straw man: there are many people who believe exactly this. Here's an example post by <a href="http://positiveliberty.com/2006/05/where’s-the-beef…really.html" rel="nofollow">Timothy Sandefur</a>, frequent guest author on Positive Liberty and the Panda's Thumb, which argues that there is no moral distinction between taxation and robbery. Even some <a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/an-atheists-creed.html#comment-120" rel="nofollow">commenters on this site</a> have expressed this view.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Wintersmith</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25186</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Wintersmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/06/why-i-am-not-a-libertarian.html#comment-25186</guid>
		<description>Oops, typo in my last comment broke the link to the post. &lt;a href="http://wintershaven.net/2007/06/26/libertarianism-consequentialism-and-deontology/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Click here&lt;/a&gt; instead to see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, typo in my last comment broke the link to the post. <a href="http://wintershaven.net/2007/06/26/libertarianism-consequentialism-and-deontology/" rel="nofollow">Click here</a> instead to see it.</p>
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