Comments on: A Crack in the Wall http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:35:00 +0000 By: laytheist http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25896 laytheist Fri, 03 Aug 2007 02:19:43 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25896 Concerning the wedge doc: What about the first 4 or 5 paragraphs? Is all that BS or is their truth to it? Or is it framed in a way to make materialism look bad. My fundamentalist family member would be all over that and I don't have the background to refute it. She would love the Marx reference since she is still caught up in the red scare. Where do I start reading? Concerning the wedge doc:

What about the first 4 or 5 paragraphs? Is all that BS or is their truth to it? Or is it framed in a way to make materialism look bad. My fundamentalist family member would be all over that and I don't have the background to refute it. She would love the Marx reference since she is still caught up in the red scare. Where do I start reading?

]]> By: Alex Weaver http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25869 Alex Weaver Wed, 01 Aug 2007 11:26:49 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25869 <blockquote>That wall of dogma may seem tall and imposing, but its strength has never truly been tested; it has never in our lifetimes faced a sustained assault like the broadside we're now giving it.</blockquote> That "broadside" bit has me suddenly imagining William Dembski with a powdered wig and bicorne, walking numbly down the stairs of the DI headquarters as cannons blast them apart from either side.... ^.^

That wall of dogma may seem tall and imposing, but its strength has never truly been tested; it has never in our lifetimes faced a sustained assault like the broadside we're now giving it.

That "broadside" bit has me suddenly imagining William Dembski with a powdered wig and bicorne, walking numbly down the stairs of the DI headquarters as cannons blast them apart from either side.... ^.^

]]> By: BrotherRichard http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25866 BrotherRichard Wed, 01 Aug 2007 05:22:00 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25866 For years "non-believers" have been content to live and let live. It is the religious right that is forcing us out of the closet. They can't be content with controling their own life; they have to control everyone else's as well. They started the fight. True science, stem cell reasarch, gay rights, education are just a few arenas. Richard <a href="http://lifewithoutfaith.com/" rel="nofollow">http:lifewithoutfaith.com </a> For years "non-believers" have been content to live and let live. It is the religious right that is forcing us out of the closet. They can't be content with controling their own life; they have to control everyone else's as well. They started the fight. True science, stem cell reasarch, gay rights, education are just a few arenas.

Richard
http:lifewithoutfaith.com

]]> By: javaman http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25860 javaman Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:59:50 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25860 <blockquote>even to the point where a good strong push in the right place could bring the whole thing crashing down.</blockquote> Ebonmusing, perhaps this can be the focal point of your new book. Who better than you to find this one simple unifying principle and to elegantly explain it in your gentle way? I consider you the new Carl Sagan of our times. We're all behind you, and I'm your biggest fan. Count me in.

even to the point where a good strong push in the right place could bring the whole thing crashing down.

Ebonmusing, perhaps this can be the focal point of your new book. Who better than you to find this one simple unifying principle and to elegantly explain it in your gentle way? I consider you the new Carl Sagan of our times. We're all behind you, and I'm your biggest fan. Count me in.

]]> By: Warren T http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25854 Warren T Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:57:58 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25854 To Will E.: Commenting that atheism is a lucrative business has very little to do with the truth value of nontheism or monotheistic religion. Religion demands indoctrination at an early age and once in place becomes excellent fodder for the sheep concsiousness it promulgates; ergo, full shelves at Borders. Nontheism, on the other hand, represents the minority whom for whatever reason, escape the plodding attemtps by our elders and by society to subdue reason early enough to shut it down or compartmentalize the brain sufficiently in order that dogmatic beliefs are sheltered from reason in adulthood. For a multitude of social, political and psychological reasons, it is only the brave and persistent human that makes the foray away from religion and into the light of reason, ergo, relatively few books in the "Atheism" category. As mentioned by another commentor, there should be no Atheism section anyway. Those books should be in the science or philosophy section where truth is sought, not the re-hashing of dogma by people who are caught in the web. To Will E.: Commenting that atheism is a lucrative business has very little to do with the truth value of nontheism or monotheistic religion. Religion demands indoctrination at an early age and once in place becomes excellent fodder for the sheep concsiousness it promulgates; ergo, full shelves at Borders. Nontheism, on the other hand, represents the minority whom for whatever reason, escape the plodding attemtps by our elders and by society to subdue reason early enough to shut it down or compartmentalize the brain sufficiently in order that dogmatic beliefs are sheltered from reason in adulthood. For a multitude of social, political and psychological reasons, it is only the brave and persistent human that makes the foray away from religion and into the light of reason, ergo, relatively few books in the "Atheism" category. As mentioned by another commentor, there should be no Atheism section anyway. Those books should be in the science or philosophy section where truth is sought, not the re-hashing of dogma by people who are caught in the web.

]]> By: BlackSun http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25837 BlackSun Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:36:08 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25837 <blockquote>Some people, including some atheists, have taken the position that belief in the unproven is an ineradicable part of human nature. I do not think so, however. That wall of dogma may seem tall and imposing, but its strength has never truly been tested; it has never in our lifetimes faced a sustained assault like the broadside we're now giving it.</blockquote> I think the wall is definitely cracking, and it's great news. But the fact remains that according to both Dennett and Alper, it is the innate human tendency to attribute agency (and personality) to random or natural events which forms the basis of belief. Combine this with various forms of adversity, and anxiety about death, and it's a perfect cauldron for supersition. So as science has chipped away at former idols of nature by explaining phenomena, mystics continue to find and focus on ever more obscure and hard-to-define realms. I have several conversations going on right now with new-agers who are all wrapped up in "synchronicities," and "intuition" as the new frontiers of belief. Another one which I plan to post on soon is the idea of "purity." New age superstition is less socially harmful, but it's every bit as powerful as a "reality distortion field."

Some people, including some atheists, have taken the position that belief in the unproven is an ineradicable part of human nature. I do not think so, however. That wall of dogma may seem tall and imposing, but its strength has never truly been tested; it has never in our lifetimes faced a sustained assault like the broadside we're now giving it.

I think the wall is definitely cracking, and it's great news. But the fact remains that according to both Dennett and Alper, it is the innate human tendency to attribute agency (and personality) to random or natural events which forms the basis of belief. Combine this with various forms of adversity, and anxiety about death, and it's a perfect cauldron for supersition.

So as science has chipped away at former idols of nature by explaining phenomena, mystics continue to find and focus on ever more obscure and hard-to-define realms. I have several conversations going on right now with new-agers who are all wrapped up in "synchronicities," and "intuition" as the new frontiers of belief. Another one which I plan to post on soon is the idea of "purity."

New age superstition is less socially harmful, but it's every bit as powerful as a "reality distortion field."

]]> By: Alex Weaver http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25832 Alex Weaver Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:56:32 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25832 Minor correction: <blockquote>The Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based <b>obfuscation</b> tank that promotes intelligent design creationism,</blockquote> Other than that... *agrees* Minor correction:

The Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based obfuscation tank that promotes intelligent design creationism,

Other than that... *agrees*

]]> By: Freeyourmind http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25829 Freeyourmind Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:23:50 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25829 Will E. - that's an unfair comparison that you made. Atheism on it's own is a non-subject. The word itself simply means "without theism". Whereas there are many religions and many ways to look at each one. They're beliefs, claims, etc.. must be written about so that people can understand them. That is why you will always have a large number more books about religion than about Atheism. The authors of the books mentioned are simply discussing the negatives of religion as a whole along with the benefits of living a faith-free life. Will E. - that's an unfair comparison that you made. Atheism on it's own is a non-subject. The word itself simply means "without theism". Whereas there are many religions and many ways to look at each one. They're beliefs, claims, etc.. must be written about so that people can understand them. That is why you will always have a large number more books about religion than about Atheism.

The authors of the books mentioned are simply discussing the negatives of religion as a whole along with the benefits of living a faith-free life.

]]> By: Will E. http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25828 Will E. Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:10:55 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25828 Yeah, wow, four books on atheism in the last year or so, and suddenly atheism is "lucrative business." Whatever. The atheism shelf at my local Borders comprises about a dozen titles, while the religion section it's part of takes up three *aisles*. Give me a fucking break--tell it to Rick Warren or Joel Osteen. Yeah, wow, four books on atheism in the last year or so, and suddenly atheism is "lucrative business." Whatever. The atheism shelf at my local Borders comprises about a dozen titles, while the religion section it's part of takes up three *aisles*. Give me a fucking break--tell it to Rick Warren or Joel Osteen.

]]> By: G Riggs http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25827 G Riggs Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:20:33 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/a-crack-in-the-wall.html#comment-25827 IMO, the development underscored by the Wall Street Journal piece may partly be due to a general and growing revulsion against religious dogmatism in the wake of 9/11. If all these new publications help wipe just a little of the smirk off Osama Bin Laden's face, then hey! Cheers, G Riggs IMO, the development underscored by the Wall Street Journal piece may partly be due to a general and growing revulsion against religious dogmatism in the wake of 9/11. If all these new publications help wipe just a little of the smirk off Osama Bin Laden's face, then hey!

Cheers,

G Riggs

]]>