Poor you. That would be frustrating -- but surely you can just press the 'back' button? That's what I do (again, and again, and again...).

I'm suspect that all atheists have had the experience you describe of having a debate or discussion and realizing that the other party is interacting with a straw man rather than with us. Many have concluded debating Christians is pointless because they do not follow the rules of rational debate. In many ways, it is like trying to carry on a rational discussion with someone suffering from schizophrenia.

I like your ideas for reaching believers even though I expect you may take some flak for what you say about the angry atheist thing. I think that you are right because anger in this context will be perceived as a lack of emotional control. The key is not to abandon one's anger but to learn how to use it effectively.

I used to argue with Christians a lot when I was younger, but gave it up because it was just pointless. Also, I was stunned to discover how Biblically illiterate most of them were. How can you argue about the Bible with people who've obviously only had it read to them in church?

Thank you for the links about moral relativism. You've given good reasons to reject epistemological relativism, but just demonstrate that so-called objective morals must rest on an arbitrary ("relative") foundation. I left a longer comment on one of the follow-up links.

I hear you and to a large extent agree with you. But don't you think many Christians hold the same kind of belief in reverse? Also, I'm not as sanguine about atheists who don't hold the stereotyped view as you apparently are. I've read too many blogs where it seems apparent atheists do sterotype Christians. I don't have empirical evidence for this, its only an impression.

Jim

Apparently, he bears a strong animus towards atheism, a degree of hostility that he does not feel toward any other religion"

Unlike the alternative theistic beliefs, atheism goes right to the heart of the matter, it's not about which god you serve or how you serve him/her, there just ISN'T one. There's no dealing or pleading with death, it will take you and there's nothing you can possibly do about it, no incantaion to chant, no magic words, no appeasement or peace offering or animal sacrifice or anything else. And that perhaps is what's so disturbing about atheism.

One of my friends commented to me once that he felt more at ease with Muslims than with atheists. Bear in mind this is POST 9/11!! I disagreed and said that I trusted skeptics more than those hellbent on converting others against their will. I didn't say it that succinctly, but that was the gist.

I don't advocate lumping all Muslims into a monolithic group, but surely, if someone else is already doing the lumping, it's not bigoted to point out that atheists have a better track record as a group, historically? Why such distrust of atheists? What did we ever do?

I suggest and believe that this could easily be turned around, as follows:

From my conversations, blog readings, Christian background, and other forums, I've gleaned a fair amount of information about the Christian. Apparently, he bears a strong animus towards atheism, a degree of hostility that he does not feel toward any other religion---and he considers atheism to be a religion---often as a result of some personal grievance or pain in his past. He believes in God, and wants everyone else to believe in God---HIS God. He strikes me as rather hidebound and brainwashed and one who values chastity to the point of prudishness. He knows that the Bible is a set of old stories, but he doesn't know that much of it is borrowed from more ancient traditions, that it is full of contradictions and violence, because he has probably never read, or at least never studied, the Bible. He is an absolutist who believes he has the truth.He seems to be strongly in favor of prayer in schools, government, art and sporting events, and where that two or more gather. He doesn't want atheists or other religions to threaten his comfort zone with facts, and I'm pretty sure he wants pass laws that interfere with the privacy of the bedroom and to punish gays.

IMHO, the trouble with both characterizations is that they are stereotypes presuming monolithic clones, whether atheists or Christians.

Atheist Jim