Comments on: Not Being an Angry Atheist

By: Godless Kiwi

Godless Kiwi — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:21:26 +0000

I think you need to differentiate between those of us who are atheists (i.e. have an absence of a belief in God) and those of us who, in addition to our atheism, are anti-religion (i.e. hold an oppositional attitude to organised religion).

By: Polly

Polly — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:33:26 +0000

Hello Frank,

By no means am I the arbiter of atheist manners. And in answer to your (rhetorical) question, No, it's not incumbent upon us, individually or colletively, to "educate" any and every theist that happens along our path.
The above is how I choose to see the situation and respond to honest questioners; assuming I have the time, energy, etc...

By: Frank

Frank — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:02:08 +0000

Polly: and are we suddenly in the position of having to be "educators" of any theist who happens along? The information, arguments, and essays are out there and easy to find. If they don't want to be completely ignorant of atheist thought, let them do their homework. I would expect any theist attempting to engage me in a religious conversation to have the common courtesy to know what he's talking about before he starts making ill-informed and arbitrary judgments on the entire atheist population. Just the fact that I'm an atheist doesn't make me responsible for his education on the subject. And I don't think the atheist quoted in the original essay was out of line in pointing out that the Christian post was uninformed and needlessly insulting.

By: Ken

Ken — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:04:37 +0000

We need to communicate better the wonderful feeling of thinking about and seeing and experiencing all the beauty of the world and of imagining the incredible infiniteness of the universe with unfiltered, unfettered minds. When I was a Christian, with every thought also came some idea in my mind about whether I was on the right track, whether I was being a good Christian. I wasn't interested in much else. I just wanted to please God. Now, I'll admit my lows are lower, but at least my eyes are open to life. My mind is free, my thoughts are my own, I am creative and have intellectual curiosity, which I didn't as a Christian, except as it pertained to God, Jesus and the Bible. People need to know the clarity we feel, when we are unencumbered by doctrines that claim they know best for us. I am a very moral person. And I can feel good about it because I am not simply following what others or what ancient, often irrelevant books tell me to do.

By: Polly

Polly — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 06:32:17 +0000

If atheists want to dispel stereotypes, we should adopt a posture of "educators." Teachers don't get surly or short when they hear the same questions being asked by students every new year. That's because they know that it's a brand new batch of kids. Each theist who asks you where you get your morals is like a 5th grader asking you to explain the times tables. It's really not their fault that they are ignorant (just take that stance anyway). How many people in general spend their time thinking about their worldview? Patiently explain all the reasons for atheism just as if you were teaching Atheism 101, because, really, that IS what you're doing. If they refuse to listen with an open mind and are deliberately obstinate, simply bow out, gracefully.

By: Jeff T.

Jeff T. — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:17:39 +0000

Perhaps reason, compassion, and logic have a high place in an atheist's arsenal but a well placed flame and personal attack can work miracles.
For example, in this case, an attack on living in the Bay area itself would have been an appropriate countermeasure...

By: Intergalactic Hussy

Intergalactic Hussy — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:14:58 +0000

I see quite a few people, especially in the Bay Area, that "feel" like they have the right to do whatever "they feel" like doing without examining the consequences on their family, their neighbors, their community. It is a very selfish attitude and it seems to run amuck especially out here in the Bay Area.

Funny, many Christians I know tend to be the selfish ones. And it's sad when someone needs a god to not feel alone. Can anyone say emotionally weak? Is that not selfish? Trying to make herself feel better in life by having a personal god? Hmmm....

By: James Bradbury

James Bradbury — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:12:50 +0000

I think the "angry atheist" fallacy is one of the easiest theist misconceptions to break down. So it's a good place to start. At best you can cast a lot of doubt on the existence of god or gods, and that's only if people are listening and taking your seriously. But to expose the lies they may have been told about atheists is relatively easy. If you can demonstrate that their religious leaders weren't being entirely straight with them you may even arouse their curiosity. Maybe then you might get a fair hearing for some awkward questions about god(s).

By: stillwaters

stillwaters — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:12:38 +0000

I suppose that the point that Ebonmuse is making is not that there exist some angry atheists, but that we are all, all of us atheists, perceived that way. In order to eradicate this particular stereotype, it is best to remain civil during discourse, no matter how frustrating a discussion may become, or how often the same point must be repeated endlessly.

It is not a question of whether we think Harris is angry or not, but how to put an end to the narrow-minded perception that ALL atheists are angry. It’s a fine line, since (too) many people will view any outspoken criticism of religion as being angry.

It is quite similar to the idea that these outspoken atheists are just as extreme as christian fundamentalists. Yes, I have heard some speak of Dawkins as being an extremist. An extremist in what way? I had to ask. I never did get an answer to my question. It is mostly just rhetoric, and designed to disparage the atheist position as being a preferable worldview over the governing opinion that everyone just has to believe in something supernatural.

By: Tommykey

Tommykey — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:37:47 +0000

I don't view Sam Harris as being an angry atheist. He is simply outspoken. An angry atheist would be burning Bibles and Qurans or desecrating communion wafers when speaking to an audience.

By: Brock

Brock — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:24:51 +0000

I agree that atheists need to struggle against the stereotype others have of us, and I agree that we are the last minority that people feel comfortable kicking around. What I think a lot of us need to bear in mind is that we are an artifical minority. What we believe (or don't believe) should be the least important thing about us. Again the analogy with people whose skin color is different from others is useful. Who cares what color my skin is? Only bigots,and other ignoramuses. This fight is not of our making; it has been forced upon us. That being said, tactics are important, and an understanding of how we are stereotyped is crucial to defining our response, so that we do not fall into the trap, as Ebonmusings has noted, of reinforcing that stereotype.

By: valhar2000

valhar2000 — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:55:01 +0000

The approach you suggest is preferable to me, but alas the admonition to the faithful would probably then become: "Beware Satan, shining angel of light, seducing you with a smile."

One can only hope that a sufficiently large number of people will not act like this. I do think, however, that a considerable number of people, perhaps even while giving lip service to this idea, will not be able to keep to it, and indeed by swayed by the smiles.