Comments on: The Eisenhower Test http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:30:28 +0000 By: Samuel Skinner http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-29126 Samuel Skinner Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:30:53 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-29126 I do think knowing if someone is a Fundamentalist or a Mormon is important. After all, if evidence doesn't matter you get people like Bush. It isn't the fact he disagrees with some of the things I think are true; it is that he offers no justification what so ever. The man wants to invade Iran even though our own intelligence agency says they aren't producing the Bomb. He wants to start another war because he thinks they are evil. He believes. This is almost as scary as during the Republican debate one person asked "do you think this book is absolutely true" (holds up Bible). I have no problems discriminating against a person who refuses to think on the ground they refuse to think. I'm sort of depressed that Card is a Mormon; I loved Ender's game, Children of the Mind and Pastwatch: Redemption. I do think knowing if someone is a Fundamentalist or a Mormon is important. After all, if evidence doesn't matter you get people like Bush. It isn't the fact he disagrees with some of the things I think are true; it is that he offers no justification what so ever. The man wants to invade Iran even though our own intelligence agency says they aren't producing the Bomb. He wants to start another war because he thinks they are evil. He believes.

This is almost as scary as during the Republican debate one person asked "do you think this book is absolutely true" (holds up Bible).

I have no problems discriminating against a person who refuses to think on the ground they refuse to think. I'm sort of depressed that Card is a Mormon; I loved Ender's game, Children of the Mind and Pastwatch: Redemption.

]]> By: Mrnaglfar http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25430 Mrnaglfar Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:13:34 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25430 America.... Fuck Yeah. That's really all I can think of right now. Bill Maher Time! Mormons and Politics http://youtube.com/watch?v=7xqNbZKIQUs The French and Politics http://youtube.com/watch?v=sqZg-KsSB0k Do contrast and compare America.... Fuck Yeah.

That's really all I can think of right now.

Bill Maher Time!
Mormons and Politics
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7xqNbZKIQUs
The French and Politics
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sqZg-KsSB0k

Do contrast and compare

]]> By: Jude http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25425 Jude Sat, 07 Jul 2007 06:19:22 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25425 Mormons are trained to be slightly more insane than the average religious person, because they're all trained to be devout. It's a religion where drinking a cup of coffee is regarded as evil. It's the whole thing the Jews had going for them--we are different, enlightened, separate, and superior. The best reason to never vote for a Mormon, though, is what happened in my town when we had a Mormon city manager--the only people who were hired for city jobs during his tenure were Mormons. I was glad to see him go. Mormons are trained to be slightly more insane than the average religious person, because they're all trained to be devout. It's a religion where drinking a cup of coffee is regarded as evil. It's the whole thing the Jews had going for them--we are different, enlightened, separate, and superior.

The best reason to never vote for a Mormon, though, is what happened in my town when we had a Mormon city manager--the only people who were hired for city jobs during his tenure were Mormons. I was glad to see him go.

]]> By: Lynet http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25423 Lynet Sat, 07 Jul 2007 01:20:38 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25423 <blockquote>He even throws in the by-now standard, utterly fictitious, claim that atheists want to "exclude" religious people from public life</blockquote> To be fair, when I read that, I thought there might well be atheists out there who would say that holding a religion -- particularly a fundamentalist religion -- might be an indication that a candidate for office lacks critical thinking skills. Such comments are comparable (albeit probably not in accuracy) with comments by theists that atheism might indicate a lack of morality in that neither specifically states that members of a particular group ought to be excluded from office; they just give reasons (not necessarily good ones) why such a person might not be best. Still, I agree that Card's (and most of his commenters') utter blindness to the idea that there could be anything wrong with being prejudiced against electing atheists to office is breathtaking hypocrisy. <blockquote>I really loved the Ender series (though I didn't read the "Shadow" books).</blockquote> Likewise. There's depth in the Ender series and I gained a lot from it, but when it was done it seemed finished and beautiful already; no need to go over it again. Card writes with true sympathy for a wide variety of characters (even one homosexual one), but apparently he's still willing to make bigoted political statements nevertheless. <blockquote>It is impossible to find out what a politician believes just by asking him, regardless of his professed religion.</blockquote> There are still plenty of ways of assessing the sincerity of an atheist candidate, though. You can ask, and then check the candidate's actions and see if they match the reply.

He even throws in the by-now standard, utterly fictitious, claim that atheists want to "exclude" religious people from public life

To be fair, when I read that, I thought there might well be atheists out there who would say that holding a religion -- particularly a fundamentalist religion -- might be an indication that a candidate for office lacks critical thinking skills. Such comments are comparable (albeit probably not in accuracy) with comments by theists that atheism might indicate a lack of morality in that neither specifically states that members of a particular group ought to be excluded from office; they just give reasons (not necessarily good ones) why such a person might not be best.

Still, I agree that Card's (and most of his commenters') utter blindness to the idea that there could be anything wrong with being prejudiced against electing atheists to office is breathtaking hypocrisy.

I really loved the Ender series (though I didn't read the "Shadow" books).

Likewise. There's depth in the Ender series and I gained a lot from it, but when it was done it seemed finished and beautiful already; no need to go over it again.

Card writes with true sympathy for a wide variety of characters (even one homosexual one), but apparently he's still willing to make bigoted political statements nevertheless.

It is impossible to find out what a politician believes just by asking him, regardless of his professed religion.

There are still plenty of ways of assessing the sincerity of an atheist candidate, though. You can ask, and then check the candidate's actions and see if they match the reply.

]]> By: Polly http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25415 Polly Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:37:00 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25415 I didn't know Card was Mormon until a friend of mine, who went to school with his son, told me recently. I really loved the <i>Ender</i> series (though I didn't read the "Shadow" books). I can't believe he thinks like this! It's a real disappointment - especially from a sci-fi writer. I didn't know Card was Mormon until a friend of mine, who went to school with his son, told me recently. I really loved the Ender series (though I didn't read the "Shadow" books). I can't believe he thinks like this! It's a real disappointment - especially from a sci-fi writer.

]]> By: marty http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25413 marty Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:08:31 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25413 Yeah, I used to enjoy Card's work, but I don't even bother buying it anymore. The writing went from great to turgid, and his public pronoucements are blatant crap. Yeah, I used to enjoy Card's work, but I don't even bother buying it anymore. The writing went from great to turgid, and his public pronoucements are blatant crap.

]]> By: David Ellis http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25412 David Ellis Fri, 06 Jul 2007 21:29:43 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25412 The funny thing is he's actually portrayed atheists/humanists quite sympathetically in serveral of his books---included to two I mentioned. The funny thing is he's actually portrayed atheists/humanists quite sympathetically in serveral of his books---included to two I mentioned.

]]> By: David Ellis http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25411 David Ellis Fri, 06 Jul 2007 21:27:37 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25411 If you think Card's comments on atheism are bad you should read some of the things he's written about homosexuality and gay marriage. It's a shame since I happen to have thoroughly enjoyed several of his science fiction novels (particularly ENDER'S GAME and SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD). Though I think a work of art should be judged on its own merits it has partly soured the experience of reading his books for me. If you think Card's comments on atheism are bad you should read some of the things he's written about homosexuality and gay marriage.

It's a shame since I happen to have thoroughly enjoyed several of his science fiction novels (particularly ENDER'S GAME and SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD).

Though I think a work of art should be judged on its own merits it has partly soured the experience of reading his books for me.

]]> By: rob http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25410 rob Fri, 06 Jul 2007 20:33:33 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25410 <i>"Mr. Card: if you want to know what an atheist believes, ask him."</i> It is impossible to find out what a politician believes just by asking him, regardless of his professed religion. "Mr. Card: if you want to know what an atheist believes, ask him."

It is impossible to find out what a politician believes just by asking him, regardless of his professed religion.

]]> By: The Ridger http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25409 The Ridger Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:39:35 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/the-eisenhower-test.html#comment-25409 Besides, the atheist would just lie. I mean, we have no reason to tell the truth, do we? Besides, the atheist would just lie. I mean, we have no reason to tell the truth, do we?

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