Comments on: Nothing Behind the Altar http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:17:14 +0000 By: D. Krueger http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-26450 D. Krueger Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:25:40 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-26450 One comment in this series says that the phrase "God's mysterious ways" is purely apocryphal. For the sake of accuracy it needs to be noted that in the Bible New Testament, The First Letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 4, verse 1, the specific term "the mysteries of God" is used. The concept has been a part of the Christian tradition since earliest times. It is a way of saying that humans simply do not grasp all things, including the concept of God, and need to have minds open to many possibilities. One of those possibilities is that there is no god. DK One comment in this series says that the phrase "God's mysterious ways" is purely apocryphal. For the sake of accuracy it needs to be noted that in the Bible New Testament, The First Letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 4, verse 1, the specific term "the mysteries of God" is used. The concept has been a part of the Christian tradition since earliest times. It is a way of saying that humans simply do not grasp all things, including the concept of God, and need to have minds open to many possibilities. One of those possibilities is that there is no god.
DK

]]> By: Albert F. Maas http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25951 Albert F. Maas Tue, 07 Aug 2007 02:31:32 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25951 " god works in mysterious ways". Sounds like the majority of clerics and preists. It is a mystery if they do any work at all! Why don't they get a real job? " god works in mysterious ways". Sounds like the majority of clerics and preists. It is a mystery if they do any work at all! Why don't they get a real job?

]]> By: andrea http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25947 andrea Mon, 06 Aug 2007 13:15:30 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25947 Christianity always depends on the assumption that God is somehow above his "followers" to keep any validity to the faith. However, that limits the choices of what's "really" going on to three choices: 1. God accepts the actions of his followers and they are A-OK. Negates the idea of a "good" deity. 2. God doesn't care. Also negates the idea of a "good" deity. 3. God doesn't exist. Christianity always depends on the assumption that God is somehow above his "followers" to keep any validity to the faith. However, that limits the choices of what's "really" going on to three choices:

1. God accepts the actions of his followers and they are A-OK. Negates the idea of a "good" deity.
2. God doesn't care. Also negates the idea of a "good" deity.
3. God doesn't exist.

]]> By: Greta Christina http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25942 Greta Christina Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:51:15 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25942 Yup. I'd also add that there's another serious problem with "Keep your eyes on the person nailed to the cross, not the priests behind the altar" -- the degree to which, when there isn't currently a scandal brewing, the priests behind the altar are presented as necessary to the faith. That's especially true in the Catholic Church, where priests are seen as a necessary pathway to salvation and God (through baptism, absolution, last rites, etc.). But as you wrote about yourself in your piece <a HREF="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/07/know-nothings.html" rel="nofollow">Know-Nothings</A>, even in other religions the leaders are seen as a necessary source of "information" and "knowledge" about God and heaven and hell and the soul. But you don't get to say that the priests are a necessary and valid authority on spiritual matters... and then say they should be ignored when they're caught stealing or molesting or just screwing around. Yup.

I'd also add that there's another serious problem with "Keep your eyes on the person nailed to the cross, not the priests behind the altar" -- the degree to which, when there isn't currently a scandal brewing, the priests behind the altar are presented as necessary to the faith.

That's especially true in the Catholic Church, where priests are seen as a necessary pathway to salvation and God (through baptism, absolution, last rites, etc.). But as you wrote about yourself in your piece Know-Nothings, even in other religions the leaders are seen as a necessary source of "information" and "knowledge" about God and heaven and hell and the soul.

But you don't get to say that the priests are a necessary and valid authority on spiritual matters... and then say they should be ignored when they're caught stealing or molesting or just screwing around.

]]> By: MJJP http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25939 MJJP Mon, 06 Aug 2007 00:05:32 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25939 As a relative newcomer to this cite I have to tell you how impressed I am at the articles and how they are written. Keep up the good work. As a relative newcomer to this cite I have to tell you how impressed
I am at the articles and how they are written. Keep up the good work.

]]> By: John P http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25938 John P Mon, 06 Aug 2007 00:01:20 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25938 Typical selection bias. The good stuff gets credited to god, the bad to his minions. Will it ever end? Typical selection bias. The good stuff gets credited to god, the bad to his minions. Will it ever end?

]]> By: John Nernoff III M.D. http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25937 John Nernoff III M.D. Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:44:02 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25937 There's no "He" up there. There's no human floating sky being. There's no bearded old man that looks "down" from heaven. These are just childish dreams that somehow persist in the minds of many adults because they are afraid of being alone in the universe. Humans evolved out of the long distant slime some 100,000 years ago. The earth formed 5 billion years ago, making human existence a tiny fraction of the time of the creation, and even more remote from the Big Bang which started it all. To hold that any humanoid deity was somehow responsible for any of this is to commit a huge error of absurd disjunction. There's no "He" up there. There's no human floating sky being. There's no bearded old man that looks "down" from heaven. These are just childish dreams that somehow persist in the minds of many adults because they are afraid of being alone in the universe.

Humans evolved out of the long distant slime some 100,000 years ago. The earth formed 5 billion years ago, making human existence a tiny fraction of the time of the creation, and even more remote from the Big Bang which started it all. To hold that any humanoid deity was somehow responsible for any of this is to commit a huge error of absurd disjunction.

]]> By: J http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25933 J Sun, 05 Aug 2007 17:53:31 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25933 <i>or He works in mysterious ways</i> Right on. It's also worth pointing out that the oft-invoked words "God works in mysterious ways" do not exist in the Bible in any formulation: They're purely "apocryphal". The liberal religious author Gregg Easterbrook wrote that it probably grew out of the sociology of pastoral counseling; needing something convincing to say to people who had, say, just lost a child or been diagnosed with cnacer, hospital chaplains came up with the comforting but essentially made-up, "God works in mysterious ways." or He works in mysterious ways

Right on. It's also worth pointing out that the oft-invoked words "God works in mysterious ways" do not exist in the Bible in any formulation: They're purely "apocryphal". The liberal religious author Gregg Easterbrook wrote that it probably grew out of the sociology of pastoral counseling; needing something convincing to say to people who had, say, just lost a child or been diagnosed with cnacer, hospital chaplains came up with the comforting but essentially made-up, "God works in mysterious ways."

]]> By: terrence http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25931 terrence Sun, 05 Aug 2007 16:45:07 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/nothing-behind-the-altar.html#comment-25931 Last four paragraphs are beautifully succinct -- I would have added "Either God is the source of morality, or He works in mysterious ways, but both can't be true at the same time." Last four paragraphs are beautifully succinct -- I would have added "Either God is the source of morality, or He works in mysterious ways, but both can't be true at the same time."

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