Comments on: The Asch Conformity Experiment http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:28:36 +0000 By: cmills http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-27292 cmills Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:50:35 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-27292 Thumpalumpacus made a very important and valid point. "I am forever grateful to my parents for equipping me for atheism. By forcing my attendance in church, they ensured that my atheism was not blind rebellion but a true search. By telling me to think for myself, they brought about a contempt for conformity in me. And by encouraging me to always stick to my guns, and teaching me how to do so, they prepared me to handle the pressure that the group always inflicts." Blind rebellion is the phrase which stands out most to me. Are some atheists not simply following a trend or acting out of anger? I encourage all atheists who have a limited understanding of different religions to study them and thus reinforce their clear understanding of the truth of things. Anyone can memorize some rhetoric and rally around a cause, but a person of true conviction will arm themself with knowledge and understanding of what they are against. Thumpalumpacus made a very important and valid point.

"I am forever grateful to my parents for equipping me for atheism. By forcing my attendance in church, they ensured that my atheism was not blind rebellion but a true search. By telling me to think for myself, they brought about a contempt for conformity in me. And by encouraging me to always stick to my guns, and teaching me how to do so, they prepared me to handle the pressure that the group always inflicts."

Blind rebellion is the phrase which stands out most to me. Are some atheists not simply following a trend or acting out of anger? I encourage all atheists who have a limited understanding of different religions to study them and thus reinforce their clear understanding of the truth of things. Anyone can memorize some rhetoric and rally around a cause, but a person of true conviction will arm themself with knowledge and understanding of what they are against.

]]> By: Archi Medez http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26426 Archi Medez Sat, 25 Aug 2007 05:33:25 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26426 Ebonmuse, excellent article! Ebonmuse, excellent article!

]]> By: Ceetar (zzzz) http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26423 Ceetar (zzzz) Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:01:50 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26423 I'd like to see the experiment done where that one guy that gives the right answer is either a trusted person (Teacher, Father, Preacher, etc) or a distrusted person(homeless guy, drunkard, George Bush, etc) I think the results to that would be interesting and a little more informative. I'd like to see the experiment done where that one guy that gives the right answer is either a trusted person (Teacher, Father, Preacher, etc) or a distrusted person(homeless guy, drunkard, George Bush, etc)

I think the results to that would be interesting and a little more informative.

]]> By: bobby http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26418 bobby Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:13:21 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26418 Before accepting my atheism like Polly I'd have been in that 75% of 'needing to be like the rest' bunch. Now I've broken out, broken free of that mind numbing attitude to become inconspicuous, to stand out and be proud of the beliefs I hold, it's like a part of me I never knew has been shown to me. For me those other 7 in the room are respected family members and my own children, and it's been a hard won struggle to hold fast to my own line. Their doubts are there, I see them, I don't encorage them, I let them free-think. I only hope that they come to a conclusion like I have, that brings them contentment. Before accepting my atheism like Polly I'd have been in that 75% of 'needing to be like the rest' bunch. Now I've broken out, broken free of that mind numbing attitude to become inconspicuous, to stand out and be proud of the beliefs I hold, it's like a part of me I never knew has been shown to me. For me those other 7 in the room are respected family members and my own children, and it's been a hard won struggle to hold fast to my own line. Their doubts are there, I see them, I don't encorage them, I let them free-think. I only hope that they come to a conclusion like I have, that brings them contentment.

]]> By: Polly http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26415 Polly Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:20:36 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26415 I distrust myself. I always have. I definitely would have been in the 75%. Now, I don't know which came first but around the time I "turned", I started asking questions a lot. Where I used to accept things (just trivial stuff) I started to scrutinize things instead, like movies, people's motives, and even those e-mail photos of bizarre accidents. It's like a question-generator was installed in my brain. In the short story, "In Bondage" the writer (Fyodor Sologub) made one of his young characters both, curious about the whole world and gullible. Because of the boy's insatiable thirst for knowledge he accepted everything people told him. I'd never seen those two traits associated. But, it made perfect sense in my case and, I would surmise, in the case of many children. But, turn the same trait of knowledge-seeking from passive learner to question asker and you get the makings of a SKEPTIC. Being an atheist has made me trust my own reasoning more and has armed me with the knowledge that I have the right to demand reasons for accepting what others say. The tradition of ascribing authority is not enough anymore. I distrust myself. I always have. I definitely would have been in the 75%.
Now, I don't know which came first but around the time I "turned", I started asking questions a lot. Where I used to accept things (just trivial stuff) I started to scrutinize things instead, like movies, people's motives, and even those e-mail photos of bizarre accidents. It's like a question-generator was installed in my brain.

In the short story, "In Bondage" the writer (Fyodor Sologub) made one of his young characters both, curious about the whole world and gullible. Because of the boy's insatiable thirst for knowledge he accepted everything people told him. I'd never seen those two traits associated. But, it made perfect sense in my case and, I would surmise, in the case of many children. But, turn the same trait of knowledge-seeking from passive learner to question asker and you get the makings of a SKEPTIC.
Being an atheist has made me trust my own reasoning more and has armed me with the knowledge that I have the right to demand reasons for accepting what others say. The tradition of ascribing authority is not enough anymore.

]]> By: Thumpalumpacus http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26414 Thumpalumpacus Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:49:08 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26414 I am forever grateful to my parents for equipping me for atheism. By forcing my attendance in church, they ensured that my atheism was not blind rebellion but a true search. By telling me to think for myself, they brought about a contempt for conformity in me. And by encouraging me to always stick to my guns, and teaching me how to do so, they prepared me to handle the pressure that the group always inflicts. I am forever grateful to my parents for equipping me for atheism. By forcing my attendance in church, they ensured that my atheism was not blind rebellion but a true search. By telling me to think for myself, they brought about a contempt for conformity in me. And by encouraging me to always stick to my guns, and teaching me how to do so, they prepared me to handle the pressure that the group always inflicts.

]]> By: BlackSun http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26413 BlackSun Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:38:21 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26413 Excellent post, Ebonmuse!! Excellent post, Ebonmuse!!

]]> By: Alison http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26412 Alison Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:56:56 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26412 You know, I just remembered something similar that my sixth grade teacher said to us as an example of the importance of critical thinking and not going with the consensus. He began telling us that the moon landing was faked, that there was no such thing as gravity - that the earth was hollow, we were on the inside being held to the ground by centrifugal force. He went on and on until there were few dissenting voices. When he had gotten us to the point where only one girl held fast in her disbelief, he explained to us that we needed to stop accepting that something was true just because someone in authority told them it was, or because everyone else had been convinced, and he had been lying all the time. I'm not sure how many others in the class took it to heart. Most of them, rather than getting the point, simply became angry that the teacher had fooled them. I remembered it, and it's still vivid to this day. Funny, though, that part of the reason I decided it was right to question and disagree was that the kids who were taken in the fastest were the dim bulbs, and the girl who held fast to the end was one I admired for her intelligence and wisdom beyond her years. I think that may be another way this psychological mechanism still holds. Even when we disagree, someone, somewhere, has also held our viewpoint, so we're still part of another group. We may be the lone dissenter in the group we're currently surrounded by, but we're more able to hold and support our position because somewhere else we're supported by other dissenters. Even more reason to be open and vocal, then, because someone out there isn't speaking up because he doesn't want to be the only one in the world. You know, I just remembered something similar that my sixth grade teacher said to us as an example of the importance of critical thinking and not going with the consensus. He began telling us that the moon landing was faked, that there was no such thing as gravity - that the earth was hollow, we were on the inside being held to the ground by centrifugal force. He went on and on until there were few dissenting voices. When he had gotten us to the point where only one girl held fast in her disbelief, he explained to us that we needed to stop accepting that something was true just because someone in authority told them it was, or because everyone else had been convinced, and he had been lying all the time. I'm not sure how many others in the class took it to heart. Most of them, rather than getting the point, simply became angry that the teacher had fooled them. I remembered it, and it's still vivid to this day. Funny, though, that part of the reason I decided it was right to question and disagree was that the kids who were taken in the fastest were the dim bulbs, and the girl who held fast to the end was one I admired for her intelligence and wisdom beyond her years. I think that may be another way this psychological mechanism still holds. Even when we disagree, someone, somewhere, has also held our viewpoint, so we're still part of another group. We may be the lone dissenter in the group we're currently surrounded by, but we're more able to hold and support our position because somewhere else we're supported by other dissenters. Even more reason to be open and vocal, then, because someone out there isn't speaking up because he doesn't want to be the only one in the world.

]]> By: KShep http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26410 KShep Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:27:32 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26410 Oh, there are atheists in churches. I work with a devout "christian" who protests abortion and speaks in tongues. Yes, he speaks in tongues. But he also gets tired of the church from time to time, saying he can't stand the whole thing, and quits going for a few weeks, only to feel guilty and return. When he goes through his "tired" phase, he says all the same things we say here----he sees all the obvious contradictions, he doesn't like some of the more hateful bible passages, thinks his pastor is full of himself, etc. I listen to him when he's upset at something in his church and notice how close he is to atheism, if he only understood what atheism is. Dawkins said something to that effect; that all us atheists do is take the next logical step from observing biblical contradictions (and dismissing parts that you don't like) to tossing aside the entire thing. But I can't get too deep into atheism with my co-worker, after all we are in the workplace and I could throw the whole place into chaos if I'm not careful. I also think he's a pretty good guy and I don't want to upset him. I don't think he knows of my atheism, but he knows I'm not too fond of religion. So I tread very carefully and pick my battles. One day I'll patiently explain atheism to him and let him chew on it for a while. But not at work----I repair his cars for him so I'll have my chance. Oh, there are atheists in churches. I work with a devout "christian" who protests abortion and speaks in tongues. Yes, he speaks in tongues. But he also gets tired of the church from time to time, saying he can't stand the whole thing, and quits going for a few weeks, only to feel guilty and return. When he goes through his "tired" phase, he says all the same things we say here----he sees all the obvious contradictions, he doesn't like some of the more hateful bible passages, thinks his pastor is full of himself, etc.

I listen to him when he's upset at something in his church and notice how close he is to atheism, if he only understood what atheism is. Dawkins said something to that effect; that all us atheists do is take the next logical step from observing biblical contradictions (and dismissing parts that you don't like) to tossing aside the entire thing.

But I can't get too deep into atheism with my co-worker, after all we are in the workplace and I could throw the whole place into chaos if I'm not careful. I also think he's a pretty good guy and I don't want to upset him. I don't think he knows of my atheism, but he knows I'm not too fond of religion. So I tread very carefully and pick my battles. One day I'll patiently explain atheism to him and let him chew on it for a while. But not at work----I repair his cars for him so I'll have my chance.

]]> By: Neil Marr http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26409 Neil Marr Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:01:35 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/08/the-asch-conformity-experiment.html#comment-26409 It's quite telling that, in the children's story, the hero is the wee boy who innocently goes against the 100% consensus and declares that the emperor is wearing no clothes (well, 100% apart from the cunning tailor who had a vested interest in promoting the fraud [excuse pun]). Sheepishly going along with the flock -- even against the evidence and against common sense -- probably goes back to the dawn of social man. Sadly, it's all too apparently still a human trait. Neil It's quite telling that, in the children's story, the hero is the wee boy who innocently goes against the 100% consensus and declares that the emperor is wearing no clothes (well, 100% apart from the cunning tailor who had a vested interest in promoting the fraud [excuse pun]). Sheepishly going along with the flock -- even against the evidence and against common sense -- probably goes back to the dawn of social man. Sadly, it's all too apparently still a human trait. Neil

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