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	<title>Comments on: On Incorruptibility</title>
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		<title>By: Nomino</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-65864</link>
		<dc:creator>Nomino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2011 03:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-65864</guid>
		<description>1) Incorruptibility is not considered a miracle in Roman Catholicism nor proof of sanctity nor saintliness nor anthing at all. In fact, very evil persons have also been associated with incorruptibility.
(2) Bernatte&#039;s face is covered by a thin layer of wax. Her hands, I think, are wax. The arms having been removed for relics 
(3) Catholics/Orthodox were the first Christians. How long have &quot;fundamentalists&quot; been around - 200 years? Classical protestants - maybe 500 years or a lttle more? Also, unbiased historical studies of Jesus and the Bible have cast grave doubts on the notion that it is inerrant document. The only people who believe this do so beause they have a pre-existing faith.
(4) In its earliest times, in Catholicism, the body of a holy person was not considered evil, nor death repugnant, and the presence of relics of bodies of saints and martyrs was thought to bring the believer closer to the deceased, and have been long associated with miracles. Disgust with the body of the dead is a modern phenomenon, a product of youth-oriented, sanitized, post-Christian culture.
(5) Atheists are as ignorant of believers as believers are ignorant of atheists.
(6) Belief in miracles is not required in Catholicism.
(7) If the Church is really corrupt, then, if you are white, your ancestors are product of corruption. So is Western civilization. If you really think this, it would indeed be better for you to be an atheist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Incorruptibility is not considered a miracle in Roman Catholicism nor proof of sanctity nor saintliness nor anthing at all. In fact, very evil persons have also been associated with incorruptibility.<br />
(2) Bernatte's face is covered by a thin layer of wax. Her hands, I think, are wax. The arms having been removed for relics<br />
(3) Catholics/Orthodox were the first Christians. How long have "fundamentalists" been around - 200 years? Classical protestants - maybe 500 years or a lttle more? Also, unbiased historical studies of Jesus and the Bible have cast grave doubts on the notion that it is inerrant document. The only people who believe this do so beause they have a pre-existing faith.<br />
(4) In its earliest times, in Catholicism, the body of a holy person was not considered evil, nor death repugnant, and the presence of relics of bodies of saints and martyrs was thought to bring the believer closer to the deceased, and have been long associated with miracles. Disgust with the body of the dead is a modern phenomenon, a product of youth-oriented, sanitized, post-Christian culture.<br />
(5) Atheists are as ignorant of believers as believers are ignorant of atheists.<br />
(6) Belief in miracles is not required in Catholicism.<br />
(7) If the Church is really corrupt, then, if you are white, your ancestors are product of corruption. So is Western civilization. If you really think this, it would indeed be better for you to be an atheist.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter N</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64186</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 20:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64186</guid>
		<description>I have noticed a pattern among Christian trolls like Brendan -- they drop a bit of lame apologetics on an old comment thread where they think it won&#039;t be seen, then run off, never to be heard from again.  It&#039;s like if they do this 20 times, they get a merit badge or something.  Sometimes I think I should first reply by saying, &quot;I&#039;ll answer your argument, but only if you &lt;i&gt;promise&lt;/i&gt; to come back and at least show us that you&#039;ve read it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have noticed a pattern among Christian trolls like Brendan -- they drop a bit of lame apologetics on an old comment thread where they think it won't be seen, then run off, never to be heard from again.  It's like if they do this 20 times, they get a merit badge or something.  Sometimes I think I should first reply by saying, "I'll answer your argument, but only if you <i>promise</i> to come back and at least show us that you've read it."</p>
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		<title>By: Miles McCullough</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64185</link>
		<dc:creator>Miles McCullough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 19:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64185</guid>
		<description>www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFMmzKDonRY

Forget Jesus, the stars died for us, Brendan! The beauty of science is my favorite reason why people should refuse to commit the fallacy of faith, though there are many others as I was reminded when I looked over an old favorite recently:

http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFMmzKDonRY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFMmzKDonRY</a></p>
<p>Forget Jesus, the stars died for us, Brendan! The beauty of science is my favorite reason why people should refuse to commit the fallacy of faith, though there are many others as I was reminded when I looked over an old favorite recently:</p>
<p><a href="http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html" rel="nofollow">http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: kagerato</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64183</link>
		<dc:creator>kagerato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 18:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64183</guid>
		<description>@Brendan:

First, you might like to note that this post is over three years old.

Second, miracles are magic is not an explanation.  That&#039;s an appeal to authority.  It&#039;s not persuasive and never was.  The only people who like &quot;explanations&quot; like this are those who already believe you.

Third, we care because dominionists and theocrats of all stripes are constantly trying to have their personal practices carved into the law for all to obey.  We care because believers are constantly trying to convince of us to adopt views which have no evidence behind them, and that approach to the world has been shown in many other instances to lead to danger and madness.  We care because the difference between truth and fiction is real and not a matter of personal opinion.

This is merely scratching the surface; there are many other reasons.  If you look around and read what atheists actually say, it&#039;s not difficult to find their explanations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brendan:</p>
<p>First, you might like to note that this post is over three years old.</p>
<p>Second, miracles are magic is not an explanation.  That's an appeal to authority.  It's not persuasive and never was.  The only people who like "explanations" like this are those who already believe you.</p>
<p>Third, we care because dominionists and theocrats of all stripes are constantly trying to have their personal practices carved into the law for all to obey.  We care because believers are constantly trying to convince of us to adopt views which have no evidence behind them, and that approach to the world has been shown in many other instances to lead to danger and madness.  We care because the difference between truth and fiction is real and not a matter of personal opinion.</p>
<p>This is merely scratching the surface; there are many other reasons.  If you look around and read what atheists actually say, it's not difficult to find their explanations.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter N</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64169</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 06:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64169</guid>
		<description>Brendan,

&lt;blockquote&gt;I find it amusing that atheists often criticize the Church for not having evidence, proof or an explanation for the miracles, THATS WHY THEY&#039;RE MIRACLES.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s so simple that even you can understand it.  A miracle is by definition &lt;i&gt;impossible&lt;/i&gt;.  &lt;i&gt;No&lt;/i&gt; amount of evidence would prove that something &lt;i&gt;impossible&lt;/i&gt; had taken place.  Only the gullible, the easily deceived, fall for that stuff.  And the thing is, &lt;i&gt;a god would know this&lt;/i&gt;.  A god who wanted us to know him and believe in him wouldn&#039;t bother with miracles, because such a god would understand that people are completely justified in not believing in them.  A miracle is not evidence for god, it is evidence for human error.

Just forget about the miracles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brendan,</p>
<blockquote><p>I find it amusing that atheists often criticize the Church for not having evidence, proof or an explanation for the miracles, THATS WHY THEY'RE MIRACLES.</p></blockquote>
<p>It's so simple that even you can understand it.  A miracle is by definition <i>impossible</i>.  <i>No</i> amount of evidence would prove that something <i>impossible</i> had taken place.  Only the gullible, the easily deceived, fall for that stuff.  And the thing is, <i>a god would know this</i>.  A god who wanted us to know him and believe in him wouldn't bother with miracles, because such a god would understand that people are completely justified in not believing in them.  A miracle is not evidence for god, it is evidence for human error.</p>
<p>Just forget about the miracles.</p>
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		<title>By: lpetrich</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64158</link>
		<dc:creator>lpetrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 03:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64158</guid>
		<description>Brendan, I did some research on what some Protestant denominations state, and while they consider the Catholic Church a fellow Xian church, they don&#039;t accept the authority of the Pope over them. In fact, the more fundie Protestants consider the Catholic Church fake Xianity, with Mary worship and being works-based and stuff like that.

You also might want to read what Ebonmuse writes, so you can get an idea of what he&#039;s talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brendan, I did some research on what some Protestant denominations state, and while they consider the Catholic Church a fellow Xian church, they don't accept the authority of the Pope over them. In fact, the more fundie Protestants consider the Catholic Church fake Xianity, with Mary worship and being works-based and stuff like that.</p>
<p>You also might want to read what Ebonmuse writes, so you can get an idea of what he's talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Nes</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64155</link>
		<dc:creator>Nes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 03:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64155</guid>
		<description>Brendan,

Since he is obviously clairvoyant (or maybe he just gets asked this a lot), Ebonmuse already has a post to specifically answer the question of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/06/why-do-we-care.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why Do We Care?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brendan,</p>
<p>Since he is obviously clairvoyant (or maybe he just gets asked this a lot), Ebonmuse already has a post to specifically answer the question of <a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/06/why-do-we-care.html" rel="nofollow">Why Do We Care?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64132</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 04:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-64132</guid>
		<description>I find it amusing that atheists often criticize the Church for not having evidence, proof or an explanation for the miracles, THATS WHY THEY&#039;RE MIRACLES. What also fascinates me is how passionate Atheists get when arguing about religion, just look at this entire website made to criticize the Church, the person who wrote this essay obviously took time to write it. I have a question if you don&#039;t believe in God why do you care? Are you looking for answers? Are you trying to convince yourself of something? You obviously care if you are writing essays and doing research. I&#039;m not trying to make you believe God is real I&#039;m just asking Why are you so passionate and why are you spending so much time on a god that is not real? Something must be driving you to find these answers. I&#039;m just curious. 

 And to whoever commented about how Catholics are not part of Christianity really needs to do some research, the Catholic Church was founded by the Apostles themselves, the ones who heard Jesus&#039;s teachings first hand! Almost 90% of the major protestant sects agree that Catholicism is part of Christianity and also acknowledge the  Pope as the rightful leader of the Church as a whole. The definition of a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus as the messiah and if you think that Catholics don&#039;t fall under that category you really don&#039;t understand what Christianity is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it amusing that atheists often criticize the Church for not having evidence, proof or an explanation for the miracles, THATS WHY THEY'RE MIRACLES. What also fascinates me is how passionate Atheists get when arguing about religion, just look at this entire website made to criticize the Church, the person who wrote this essay obviously took time to write it. I have a question if you don't believe in God why do you care? Are you looking for answers? Are you trying to convince yourself of something? You obviously care if you are writing essays and doing research. I'm not trying to make you believe God is real I'm just asking Why are you so passionate and why are you spending so much time on a god that is not real? Something must be driving you to find these answers. I'm just curious. </p>
<p> And to whoever commented about how Catholics are not part of Christianity really needs to do some research, the Catholic Church was founded by the Apostles themselves, the ones who heard Jesus's teachings first hand! Almost 90% of the major protestant sects agree that Catholicism is part of Christianity and also acknowledge the  Pope as the rightful leader of the Church as a whole. The definition of a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus as the messiah and if you think that Catholics don't fall under that category you really don't understand what Christianity is.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan Felipe</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-45091</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan Felipe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-45091</guid>
		<description>&quot;Uno de los milagros más extraños del catálogo cristiano es el milagro de los santos incorruptos....&quot;

http://www.ateosmexicanos.com/portal/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=190:sobre-los-santos-incorruptos&amp;catid=34:articulos&amp;Itemid=54</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Uno de los milagros más extraños del catálogo cristiano es el milagro de los santos incorruptos...."</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ateosmexicanos.com/portal/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=190:sobre-los-santos-incorruptos&amp;catid=34:articulos&amp;Itemid=54" rel="nofollow">http://www.ateosmexicanos.com/portal/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=190:sobre-los-santos-incorruptos&amp;catid=34:articulos&amp;Itemid=54</a></p>
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		<title>By: Micheal</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-33610</link>
		<dc:creator>Micheal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 06:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-33610</guid>
		<description>One  &quot;incorruptible&quot; person is not decaying because their pious nature is so strong it permeates the skin. I think this answers many of the questions that some of the people commenting here have asked such as &quot;If this were a true miracle from a true god, those bodies would look and feel as natural as the day they died.&quot;. since its not God doing it than that would explain why these people arent completely free of decomposition.thing that many of you aetheists who critisize the argument that God is causing this phenomenon are forgetting one thing: there is more than one spiritual argument for the cause. Apparantly another possibility I read about is that the

as for whether its real or not. I think the case of St. Bernadette Soubiros still makes a pretty strong argument. the key evidence is that the crucifix and rosary that was burried with her had oxidized when she was exhumed. I dont know if her casket was lead or not. if so that could make evidence for natural mummification. Furthermore their is also the many times when the &quot;odor of sanctity&quot; has been smelled when some of these saints were exhumed. I suppose its possible that some deceitfull believer could have dug up these bodys and sprayed them with a bottle of perfume moments before they were exhumed. but that doesnt seem very likely to me, considering how hard something like that would be to pull off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One  "incorruptible" person is not decaying because their pious nature is so strong it permeates the skin. I think this answers many of the questions that some of the people commenting here have asked such as "If this were a true miracle from a true god, those bodies would look and feel as natural as the day they died.". since its not God doing it than that would explain why these people arent completely free of decomposition.thing that many of you aetheists who critisize the argument that God is causing this phenomenon are forgetting one thing: there is more than one spiritual argument for the cause. Apparantly another possibility I read about is that the</p>
<p>as for whether its real or not. I think the case of St. Bernadette Soubiros still makes a pretty strong argument. the key evidence is that the crucifix and rosary that was burried with her had oxidized when she was exhumed. I dont know if her casket was lead or not. if so that could make evidence for natural mummification. Furthermore their is also the many times when the "odor of sanctity" has been smelled when some of these saints were exhumed. I suppose its possible that some deceitfull believer could have dug up these bodys and sprayed them with a bottle of perfume moments before they were exhumed. but that doesnt seem very likely to me, considering how hard something like that would be to pull off.</p>
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		<title>By: lpetrich</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-33067</link>
		<dc:creator>lpetrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-33067</guid>
		<description>From &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.skeptically.org/skepticism/id15.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Great Pyramid&lt;/a&gt; in &lt;i&gt;Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science&lt;/i&gt; by Martin Gardner:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Sir Flinders Petrie, a famous archeologist who made some highly exact Pyramid measurements, reports that he once caught a Pyramidologist secretly filing down a projecting stone to make it conform to one of his theories!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Also, why is the Virgin Mary so &lt;i&gt;cagey&lt;/i&gt;? Why does she skulk around as if she has something to hide? Why doesn&#039;t she come out in the open? And make some special appearances for anti-Catholic bigots like Jack Chick, like:

&lt;i&gt;Jack, Jack, why are you persecuting me?&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From <a href="http://www.skeptically.org/skepticism/id15.html" rel="nofollow">The Great Pyramid</a> in <i>Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science</i> by Martin Gardner:</p>
<blockquote><p>Sir Flinders Petrie, a famous archeologist who made some highly exact Pyramid measurements, reports that he once caught a Pyramidologist secretly filing down a projecting stone to make it conform to one of his theories!</p></blockquote>
<p>Also, why is the Virgin Mary so <i>cagey</i>? Why does she skulk around as if she has something to hide? Why doesn't she come out in the open? And make some special appearances for anti-Catholic bigots like Jack Chick, like:</p>
<p><i>Jack, Jack, why are you persecuting me?</i></p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-33059</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/on-incorruptibility.html#comment-33059</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Explain stigmata then. You guys certainly have a good laugh over incorruptible relics. Have at it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Gladly. Stigmata are the product of mentally disturbed or deceitful religious believers who intentionally injure themselves.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Odd, but I don&#039;t run to your websites discussing your views just to poke at them. In fact, I don&#039;t care to even waste my time.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s unfortunate that you think examining views different than your own is a waste of time. Not all of us share that attitude, however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Explain stigmata then. You guys certainly have a good laugh over incorruptible relics. Have at it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Gladly. Stigmata are the product of mentally disturbed or deceitful religious believers who intentionally injure themselves.</p>
<blockquote><p>Odd, but I don't run to your websites discussing your views just to poke at them. In fact, I don't care to even waste my time.</p></blockquote>
<p>It's unfortunate that you think examining views different than your own is a waste of time. Not all of us share that attitude, however.</p>
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