Comments on: A Change in the Wind http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:03:58 +0000 By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27961 Ebonmuse Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:50:22 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27961 Sheesh, Harvard, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today or something? Take it easy. You can argue against Matt's position to your heart's content, and he may choose to reply or not, but in either case he can be as cheerful as he likes. Let the man be. Sheesh, Harvard, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today or something? Take it easy. You can argue against Matt's position to your heart's content, and he may choose to reply or not, but in either case he can be as cheerful as he likes. Let the man be.

]]> By: Harvard http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27948 Harvard Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:11:11 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27948 To Matt R -- ----You said, "My only concern is that everyone gets to think what they [sic] want to think without being subject to the ruling authorities [sic] views." ---- Really? Your ONLY concern is that everyone thinks what he/she wants to think? Think about it for a few moments and you'll come up with a dozen reasons why your ONLY concern is nonsense. Tell us, please, the first of these dozen reasons. --- And - again - please spare us. What you're saying is not cheerful. -- To Matt R --

----You said, "My only concern is that everyone gets to think what they [sic] want to think without being subject to the ruling authorities [sic] views." ----

Really?
Your ONLY concern is that everyone thinks what he/she wants to think?
Think about it for a few moments and you'll come up with a dozen reasons why your ONLY concern is nonsense.
Tell us, please, the first of these dozen reasons.
---
And - again - please spare us. What you're saying is not cheerful.
--

]]> By: Matt R http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27752 Matt R Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:20:20 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27752 Brock, I dislike it when people strawman me, and if I have straman-ed you, then I sincerely apologize. No tricks here. I am not trying an apologetic to make you believe Christianity. You are on your own there. Cheers, Matt Brock,

I dislike it when people strawman me, and if I have straman-ed you, then I sincerely apologize. No tricks here. I am not trying an apologetic to make you believe Christianity. You are on your own there.

Cheers,

Matt

]]> By: Steve Bowen http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27748 Steve Bowen Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:57:46 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27748 Seems to me that Atheist is only a relevant tag to apply to oneself if you are immersed in a society that is implicitly religious. When only 10% of Americans are xians and rational thought is (once again?) the basis on which the country operates we can all stop defining ourselves in terms of other peoples delusions and get on with living the one life we get to experience. No, atheists won't limit the freedoms of the religious minority; we are not a movement, prizing dogma over and reason trying to supress free thought. Seems to me that Atheist is only a relevant tag to apply to oneself if you are immersed in a society that is implicitly religious. When only 10% of Americans are xians and rational thought is (once again?) the basis on which the country operates we can all stop defining ourselves in terms of other peoples delusions and get on with living the one life we get to experience.
No, atheists won't limit the freedoms of the religious minority; we are not a movement, prizing dogma over and reason trying to supress free thought.

]]> By: Brock http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27744 Brock Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:28:23 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27744 Everybody please follow Thump's example: feel free to add your own number 5! I forgot to mention, Matt that your trick of explaining to me what I really believe as opposed to what I think/say I believe,is a favorite one of Christian apologists. Everybody please follow Thump's example: feel free to add your own number 5!
I forgot to mention, Matt that your trick of explaining to me what I really believe as opposed to what I think/say I believe,is a favorite one of Christian apologists.

]]> By: Matt R http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27728 Matt R Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:02:59 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27728 Thump, Thanks for the encouragement. I hope it turns out this way. Cheers, Matt Thump,

Thanks for the encouragement. I hope it turns out this way.

Cheers,

Matt

]]> By: Thumpalumpacus http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27715 Thumpalumpacus Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:43:09 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27715 Brock, may put in #5? "Because the Abrahamic conception of god collapses under the weight of its many internal contradictions." Forgive my forwardness in so doing. Matt R: I, and many atheists, hold to the principle of tolerance not despite our experiences, but rather because of them. Any danger to freedom of conscience, given these experiences, would seemingly arise only after some generations of atheists who haven't experienced persecution have arisen. As noted above, I'm not nearly so optimistic as some of the other regs here, unfortunately. I can only promise that some of us will place our allegiance to freedom above our desire to change your mind. After all, the resort to compulsion is indicative of a weak arguer, and no atheist I know would admit that failing. :) Brock, may put in #5? "Because the Abrahamic conception of god collapses under the weight of its many internal contradictions."

Forgive my forwardness in so doing.

Matt R: I, and many atheists, hold to the principle of tolerance not despite our experiences, but rather because of them. Any danger to freedom of conscience, given these experiences, would seemingly arise only after some generations of atheists who haven't experienced persecution have arisen. As noted above, I'm not nearly so optimistic as some of the other regs here, unfortunately. I can only promise that some of us will place our allegiance to freedom above our desire to change your mind. After all, the resort to compulsion is indicative of a weak arguer, and no atheist I know would admit that failing. :)

]]> By: brock http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27704 brock Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:55:06 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27704 Sorry Matt, I am an atheist, 1) because I have never heard any coherent proof opf god's existence, 2) because of the manifest absurdity of the entire idea, as well as lots of the details, 3) because I would live my life exactly the same way even if there w3as an invisible man in the sky watching me to see if I behaved 4) because if he wants to send me to Hell because I don't want to kiss his holy ass, then he's not worthy of my consideration, let alone worship. 5) Well, I can't think of 5 right now, but I probably will. As for logical arguments for god, they have all been refuted time and again. Rather than giving you an extensive reading list, I suggest you check out our genial host's essays on his atheism pages. No, I don't necessarily think that people who beleive in god have something wrong with them. I used to believe in the same sort of stuff, and so I merely consider them less spiritually developed than I am. I'm not better than; I may have worked harder than, thought longer than, or maybe I'm just luckier. Sorry Matt, I am an atheist, 1) because I have never heard any coherent proof opf god's existence, 2) because of the manifest absurdity of the entire idea, as well as lots of the details, 3) because I would live my life exactly the same way even if there w3as an invisible man in the sky watching me to see if I behaved
4) because if he wants to send me to Hell because I don't want to kiss his holy ass, then he's not worthy of my consideration, let alone worship. 5) Well, I can't think of 5 right now, but I probably will.
As for logical arguments for god, they have all been refuted time and again. Rather than giving you an extensive reading list, I suggest you check out our genial host's essays on his atheism pages.
No, I don't necessarily think that people who beleive in god have something wrong with them. I used to believe in the same sort of stuff, and so I merely consider them less spiritually developed than I am. I'm not better than; I may have worked harder than, thought longer than, or maybe I'm just luckier.

]]> By: Matt R http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27697 Matt R Sun, 14 Oct 2007 11:15:07 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27697 OMGF, That you are attacked at christian sites is equally worrisome and I hope that you are correct that you are correct in your assessment that his words reflect a rather benign dislike of christianity. Cheers, Matt OMGF,

That you are attacked at christian sites is equally worrisome and I hope that you are correct that you are correct in your assessment that his words reflect a rather benign dislike of christianity.

Cheers,

Matt

]]> By: KShep http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27681 KShep Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:04:42 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/a-change-in-the-wind.html#comment-27681 Matt: <blockquote>I think it is a reasonable possibility that sometime in the future Christianity, and maybe even religion in general will be a minority in the United States. What limits should be imposed when the Christians/theists no longer control the majority. That is, will we be able to think and speak freely?</blockquote> I'm generalizing here, as I feel that there are corrupt (and corruptible) atheists out there who might go too far if they are given unchecked power to do so. But having said that, I think it's safe to say that you will be able to think and speak freely. Atheists as a rule have no problem with that. In fact, most atheists would gladly admit the existence of god if the guy would just prove it somehow. The only limits I see are likely to be on using theology as a basis for writing laws or policies for citizens to follow. We'll punish pharmacists who refuse to fill contraceptive prescriptions, for example. We'll nail the landlords who refuse to rent to unmarried couples. We'll toss intelligent design out of science classes, for good. We'll take religion out of politics---that is, politicians can believe what they want, but they will remember that they represent <b>everyone</b>, not just those that think as they do. And we'll toss them if they cross the line. These are all things we, as a society, should be doing now, xtian majority or not. Xtain leaders haven't yet figured out that it is in their best interests to get out of the business of writing their beliefs into law. Freedom of religion, separation of church and state, these things protect them, too. I found all the attempts to intervene in the Terri Schiavo case in Florida disgusting. The faithful didn't notice what was really going on---it was an attempt to take away a husbands right to decide what kind of medical care was best for his incapacitated wife. And they thought gays were attacking the institute of marriage---it was their own leaders!! Matt:

I think it is a reasonable possibility that sometime in the future Christianity, and maybe even religion in general will be a minority in the United States. What limits should be imposed when the Christians/theists no longer control the majority. That is, will we be able to think and speak freely?

I'm generalizing here, as I feel that there are corrupt (and corruptible) atheists out there who might go too far if they are given unchecked power to do so. But having said that, I think it's safe to say that you will be able to think and speak freely. Atheists as a rule have no problem with that. In fact, most atheists would gladly admit the existence of god if the guy would just prove it somehow.

The only limits I see are likely to be on using theology as a basis for writing laws or policies for citizens to follow. We'll punish pharmacists who refuse to fill contraceptive prescriptions, for example. We'll nail the landlords who refuse to rent to unmarried couples. We'll toss intelligent design out of science classes, for good. We'll take religion out of politics---that is, politicians can believe what they want, but they will remember that they represent everyone, not just those that think as they do. And we'll toss them if they cross the line.

These are all things we, as a society, should be doing now, xtian majority or not. Xtain leaders haven't yet figured out that it is in their best interests to get out of the business of writing their beliefs into law. Freedom of religion, separation of church and state, these things protect them, too. I found all the attempts to intervene in the Terri Schiavo case in Florida disgusting. The faithful didn't notice what was really going on---it was an attempt to take away a husbands right to decide what kind of medical care was best for his incapacitated wife. And they thought gays were attacking the institute of marriage---it was their own leaders!!

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