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	<title>Comments on: Is America a Christian Nation?</title>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49875</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 02:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49875</guid>
		<description>If cyrus had shown any inclination to respond to the arguments being presented by others, I might have overlooked the fact that his last few posts consisted solely of cut-and-paste text from Christian apologist websites. As it is, I&#039;m disinclined to be charitable. There&#039;s no point arguing against someone who clearly is neither reading the replies he receives nor writing original comments of his own, and as such, I think this thread has run its course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If cyrus had shown any inclination to respond to the arguments being presented by others, I might have overlooked the fact that his last few posts consisted solely of cut-and-paste text from Christian apologist websites. As it is, I'm disinclined to be charitable. There's no point arguing against someone who clearly is neither reading the replies he receives nor writing original comments of his own, and as such, I think this thread has run its course.</p>
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		<title>By: Modusoperandi</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49872</link>
		<dc:creator>Modusoperandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 00:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49872</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;cyrus&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;&quot;Thanks for the exchange...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
It was more like talking to a parrot, but you&#039;re welcome.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;...enjoy your freedom....I hope you won&#039;t regret later when your end is near.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
Pascal&#039;s Wager? You&#039;ve &lt;i&gt;got&lt;/i&gt; to be kidding!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>cyrus</b> <i>"Thanks for the exchange..."</i><br />
It was more like talking to a parrot, but you're welcome.</p>
<p><i>"...enjoy your freedom....I hope you won't regret later when your end is near."</i><br />
Pascal's Wager? You've <i>got</i> to be kidding!</p>
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		<title>By: cyrus</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49871</link>
		<dc:creator>cyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 00:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49871</guid>
		<description>Refute these again coz all you present you say are true and what I present is fabrications:
---

[&lt;b&gt;snip long list of cut-and-paste quotations &#8212;Ebonmuse&lt;/b&gt;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Refute these again coz all you present you say are true and what I present is fabrications:<br />
---</p>
<p>[<b>snip long list of cut-and-paste quotations &mdash;Ebonmuse</b>]</p>
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		<title>By: cyrus</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49870</link>
		<dc:creator>cyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 23:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49870</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the exchange.........enjoy your freedom....I hope you won&#039;t regret later when your end is near.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the exchange.........enjoy your freedom....I hope you won't regret later when your end is near.</p>
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		<title>By: Modusoperandi</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49868</link>
		<dc:creator>Modusoperandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49868</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;cyrus&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;&quot;The reason it was attacked by clergyman cause it was meant to placate the Arabs but eventually hostilities broke out and it was put to naught.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
And you can back that up with what? And, if true, that still ignores virtually everything else that&#039;s been posted here (including at least four other points in that same paragraph).

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Finally in a stand of a Christian nation wars is resorted to and atrocities happens in wartime that is why order must be restore and peace ensues.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
And, in a Christian Nation, who committed these atrocities? The &quot;redskins&quot; had an excuse for shooting (they were shooting back) and scalping (the French taught it to them). What&#039;s America&#039;s excuse?

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Whatever you people say, I am glad you are in the minority and America remains to be a Christian country and predominantly Protestant.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
I&#039;m glad that it&#039;s more pluralistic and more secular than it used to be. One day, perhaps, an atheist will be able to run for public office without his or her lack of religion being an issue.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Humanism teaches atheism, autonomous man, amorality, evolution and one-world socialism.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
Granted, I&#039;ve never taken a course in humanism, but it teaches &lt;i&gt;what&lt;/i&gt;? You can be a humanist without being an atheist, no man is an island, humanist ethics are still ethics (and absolutist Biblical ethics are absolute only in the sense that they will never change until they do), evolution simply &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt;, and &quot;one-world socialism&quot; is a Right Wing (Christian) bogeyman.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;It has created a spiritually apathetic society that hardly murmured when in 1962, citing no precedents, a liberal Supreme Court abolished prayer from the public schools and the next year abolished Bible reading from the schools.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
Okay. I&#039;m done with you. I try to argue in good faith (occasionally, I even succeed). You, since you just cut-n-pasted the same bit that you did before (and that I&#039;ve already countered), are arguing in bad faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>cyrus</b> <i>"The reason it was attacked by clergyman cause it was meant to placate the Arabs but eventually hostilities broke out and it was put to naught."</i><br />
And you can back that up with what? And, if true, that still ignores virtually everything else that's been posted here (including at least four other points in that same paragraph).</p>
<p><i>"Finally in a stand of a Christian nation wars is resorted to and atrocities happens in wartime that is why order must be restore and peace ensues."</i><br />
And, in a Christian Nation, who committed these atrocities? The "redskins" had an excuse for shooting (they were shooting back) and scalping (the French taught it to them). What's America's excuse?</p>
<p><i>"Whatever you people say, I am glad you are in the minority and America remains to be a Christian country and predominantly Protestant."</i><br />
I'm glad that it's more pluralistic and more secular than it used to be. One day, perhaps, an atheist will be able to run for public office without his or her lack of religion being an issue.</p>
<p><i>"Humanism teaches atheism, autonomous man, amorality, evolution and one-world socialism."</i><br />
Granted, I've never taken a course in humanism, but it teaches <i>what</i>? You can be a humanist without being an atheist, no man is an island, humanist ethics are still ethics (and absolutist Biblical ethics are absolute only in the sense that they will never change until they do), evolution simply <i>is</i>, and "one-world socialism" is a Right Wing (Christian) bogeyman.</p>
<p><i>"It has created a spiritually apathetic society that hardly murmured when in 1962, citing no precedents, a liberal Supreme Court abolished prayer from the public schools and the next year abolished Bible reading from the schools."</i><br />
Okay. I'm done with you. I try to argue in good faith (occasionally, I even succeed). You, since you just cut-n-pasted the same bit that you did before (and that I've already countered), are arguing in bad faith.</p>
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		<title>By: cyrus</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49865</link>
		<dc:creator>cyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49865</guid>
		<description>Small surprise that he&#039;s declined to address any of the arguments or evidence posed by anyone in this thread - the clergymen of the founding era who attacked the Constitution as &quot;godless&quot;, the Treaty of Tripoli, the fabricated quotes from David Barton, the theocratic nature of the original colonies, or even the arguments raised in my original post - and is instead acting as if America&#039;s status as a &quot;Christian nation&quot; can be established through mere stubborn repetition.
Response: The reason it was attacked by clergyman cause it was meant to placate the Arabs but eventually hostilities broke out and it was put to naught. unjustified
--- Finally in a stand of  a Christian nation wars is resorted to and atrocities happens in wartime that is why order must be restore and peace ensues. Whatever you people say, I am glad you are in the minority and America remains to be a Christian country and predominantly Protestant.
---. Humanism teaches atheism, autonomous man, amorality, evolution and one-world socialism. Through Dewey&#039;s influence at Columbia University, the teachings of humanism permeated our educational system and excluded from our textbooks the moral and biblical teachings which were so much a part of our American culture. Now after two generations of Americans have been subjected to this &quot;godless&quot; philosophy through our schools, what are the results? 
It has created a spiritually apathetic society that hardly murmured when in 1962, citing no precedents, a liberal Supreme Court abolished prayer from the public schools and the next year abolished Bible reading from the schools. The American public was conditioned to accept this and so from that time there was a startlingly great rise in teenage pregnancies (up 556%), venereal disease (up 226%). Family divorce which had declined for 15 years, then tripled each year since. S.A.T. scores, previously stable, declined remarkably. The high principles that made America great were lost. 
A 1982 survey of top discipline problems in the public schools listed: Rape, robbery, assault, burglary, arson, bombings, murder, suicide, absenteeism, vandalism, extortion, drug abuse/pushing, alcohol abuse, gang warfare, pregnancies, abortions and venereal disease. Contrast this with discipline problems in 1940: Talking in class, chewing gum, making noise, running in halls, getting out of turn in line, not putting papers in waste baskets. What happened to our children? 
People try to blame television programs, family breakdown, drugs, alcohol and many other things as the cause of this decadence. But this thinking is too superficial, it doesn&#039;t go deep enough. [Ebonmuse]
--- 	In broad sense Buddhism and Confucianism made China what it is. Shintoism made Japan what it is. Hinduism made India what it is. Islam made the middle east and North Africa what it is. Communism made 30 nations what they became. 
Reformation Christianity made America what it is - and this is the country we choose - and so would millions of others if they could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Small surprise that he's declined to address any of the arguments or evidence posed by anyone in this thread - the clergymen of the founding era who attacked the Constitution as "godless", the Treaty of Tripoli, the fabricated quotes from David Barton, the theocratic nature of the original colonies, or even the arguments raised in my original post - and is instead acting as if America's status as a "Christian nation" can be established through mere stubborn repetition.<br />
Response: The reason it was attacked by clergyman cause it was meant to placate the Arabs but eventually hostilities broke out and it was put to naught. unjustified<br />
--- Finally in a stand of  a Christian nation wars is resorted to and atrocities happens in wartime that is why order must be restore and peace ensues. Whatever you people say, I am glad you are in the minority and America remains to be a Christian country and predominantly Protestant.<br />
---. Humanism teaches atheism, autonomous man, amorality, evolution and one-world socialism. Through Dewey's influence at Columbia University, the teachings of humanism permeated our educational system and excluded from our textbooks the moral and biblical teachings which were so much a part of our American culture. Now after two generations of Americans have been subjected to this "godless" philosophy through our schools, what are the results?<br />
It has created a spiritually apathetic society that hardly murmured when in 1962, citing no precedents, a liberal Supreme Court abolished prayer from the public schools and the next year abolished Bible reading from the schools. The American public was conditioned to accept this and so from that time there was a startlingly great rise in teenage pregnancies (up 556%), venereal disease (up 226%). Family divorce which had declined for 15 years, then tripled each year since. S.A.T. scores, previously stable, declined remarkably. The high principles that made America great were lost.<br />
A 1982 survey of top discipline problems in the public schools listed: Rape, robbery, assault, burglary, arson, bombings, murder, suicide, absenteeism, vandalism, extortion, drug abuse/pushing, alcohol abuse, gang warfare, pregnancies, abortions and venereal disease. Contrast this with discipline problems in 1940: Talking in class, chewing gum, making noise, running in halls, getting out of turn in line, not putting papers in waste baskets. What happened to our children?<br />
People try to blame television programs, family breakdown, drugs, alcohol and many other things as the cause of this decadence. But this thinking is too superficial, it doesn't go deep enough. [Ebonmuse]<br />
--- 	In broad sense Buddhism and Confucianism made China what it is. Shintoism made Japan what it is. Hinduism made India what it is. Islam made the middle east and North Africa what it is. Communism made 30 nations what they became.<br />
Reformation Christianity made America what it is - and this is the country we choose - and so would millions of others if they could.</p>
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		<title>By: Thumpalumpacus</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49864</link>
		<dc:creator>Thumpalumpacus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49864</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Atheism isn&#039;t a threat to democracy. Ignorance is.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ignorance, and crappy pizza.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Atheism isn't a threat to democracy. Ignorance is.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ignorance, and crappy pizza.</p>
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		<title>By: Modusoperandi</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49850</link>
		<dc:creator>Modusoperandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 03:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49850</guid>
		<description>Pah! That should be &quot;...the &lt;i&gt;transcripts and full Court&#039;s decision&lt;/i&gt; of the case...&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pah! That should be "...the <i>transcripts and full Court's decision</i> of the case...".</p>
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		<title>By: Modusoperandi</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49846</link>
		<dc:creator>Modusoperandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 03:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49846</guid>
		<description>Wups, I forgot this:
&lt;i&gt;...citing no precedents...&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment aided by the Fourteenth&lt;/a&gt;.
There, that took me almost a minute to find (and it would&#039;ve only taken another minute or two to dig up the case in question, Engel v. Vitale (for bible reading in public schools, it&#039;s Abington School District v. Schempp). 
Again, repeating a lie doesn&#039;t make it true. You have a right to your opinion (in this case, someone else&#039;s opinion, really). You do not have a right to your own facts.
Excuse me if I come of as a bit angry, but it really bothers me when people don&#039;t double-check their sources. It&#039;s the same mindset that&#039;s resulted in cries of &quot;Death Panels!&quot; at town hall meetings. 

Atheism isn&#039;t a threat to democracy. Ignorance is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wups, I forgot this:<br />
<i>...citing no precedents...</i><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale" rel="nofollow">The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment aided by the Fourteenth</a>.<br />
There, that took me almost a minute to find (and it would've only taken another minute or two to dig up the case in question, Engel v. Vitale (for bible reading in public schools, it's Abington School District v. Schempp).<br />
Again, repeating a lie doesn't make it true. You have a right to your opinion (in this case, someone else's opinion, really). You do not have a right to your own facts.<br />
Excuse me if I come of as a bit angry, but it really bothers me when people don't double-check their sources. It's the same mindset that's resulted in cries of "Death Panels!" at town hall meetings. </p>
<p>Atheism isn't a threat to democracy. Ignorance is.</p>
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		<title>By: Modusoperandi</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49845</link>
		<dc:creator>Modusoperandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 02:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49845</guid>
		<description>And I missed this from cyrus&#039; cut-n-paste: &lt;i&gt;It has created a spiritually apathetic society that hardly murmured when in 1962, citing no precedents, a liberal Supreme Court abolished prayer from the public schools and the next year abolished Bible reading from the schools.&lt;/i&gt;
Repeating a lie doesn&#039;t make it true. Neither prayer nor Bible reading are banned from public schools. &lt;i&gt;School mandated&lt;/i&gt; prayer/bible reading is. You are free to pray and read your bible. The State (through the school) isn&#039;t free to force you to do so. The difference is critical, and is one that&#039;s routinely missed by the Christian Right (where the State recommending something they don&#039;t like somehow becomes &quot;force&quot; and the State not forcing something somehow becomes banning it).

&lt;i&gt;The American public was conditioned to accept this and so from that time there was a startlingly great rise in teenage pregnancies (up 556%)&lt;/i&gt;
No or limited sex-ed + no or limited access to contraceptives = pregnancy. Jesus, or lack of same, wasn&#039;t involved.

&lt;i&gt;...venereal disease (up 226%)&lt;/i&gt;
No or limited sex-ed + no or limited access to contraceptives = VD.

I should note that there&#039;s no attribution for these statistics. Statistics that can&#039;t be double-checked are worth about as much as these magic beans.

&lt;i&gt;Family divorce which had declined for 15 years, then tripled each year since.&lt;/i&gt;
Oh, grand statistics. Follow me down the rabbit hole for a moment. &lt;i&gt;If&lt;/i&gt; divorced tripled every year after 1962 &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; 40% of all marriage end in divorce (as of 2008) &lt;i&gt;then&lt;/i&gt; in 1962 .0000000000000000000000000000000003595461800933657761028850347139% of all marriages ended in divorce.

&lt;i&gt;S.A.T. scores, previously stable, declined remarkably.&lt;/i&gt;
Space Race + consistently underfunded schools = falling grades. The solution isn&#039;t more Jesus, it&#039;s textbooks from this decade in small classes taught by teachers that aren&#039;t perilously close to the poverty line.

&lt;i&gt;The high principles that made America great were lost.&lt;/i&gt;
Don&#039;t get me wrong, the 60&#039;s was a period of massive social upheaval, but a return to the imagined 50&#039;s won&#039;t bring back the idealized America that never existed. The 50&#039;s Mom was only happy in the kitchen because she was medicated (either professionally or &quot;self&quot;), and now she has to work because the modern dad doesn&#039;t make enough money for the family and the house and the insurance and college. The 50&#039;s dad can&#039;t exist now because his good, solid union job moved to China. The 50&#039;s kid still exists, but can&#039;t roam anymore because his parents are scared shitless about...everything (whereas in the 50&#039;s they were just afraid of Commies. And Mexicans. And Catholics. And brown people. And comic books. And rock &#039;n&#039; roll music. And...). Most of that is economic, some of that is civil rights, little if any of that is spiritual (except in the sense that religion has been both for and against every social movement ever. Abolution? Both sides. Women&#039;s suffrage? Both sides. To one group socialism is evil, while to another it&#039;s liberation theology, and is good.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I missed this from cyrus' cut-n-paste: <i>It has created a spiritually apathetic society that hardly murmured when in 1962, citing no precedents, a liberal Supreme Court abolished prayer from the public schools and the next year abolished Bible reading from the schools.</i><br />
Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. Neither prayer nor Bible reading are banned from public schools. <i>School mandated</i> prayer/bible reading is. You are free to pray and read your bible. The State (through the school) isn't free to force you to do so. The difference is critical, and is one that's routinely missed by the Christian Right (where the State recommending something they don't like somehow becomes "force" and the State not forcing something somehow becomes banning it).</p>
<p><i>The American public was conditioned to accept this and so from that time there was a startlingly great rise in teenage pregnancies (up 556%)</i><br />
No or limited sex-ed + no or limited access to contraceptives = pregnancy. Jesus, or lack of same, wasn't involved.</p>
<p><i>...venereal disease (up 226%)</i><br />
No or limited sex-ed + no or limited access to contraceptives = VD.</p>
<p>I should note that there's no attribution for these statistics. Statistics that can't be double-checked are worth about as much as these magic beans.</p>
<p><i>Family divorce which had declined for 15 years, then tripled each year since.</i><br />
Oh, grand statistics. Follow me down the rabbit hole for a moment. <i>If</i> divorced tripled every year after 1962 <i>and</i> 40% of all marriage end in divorce (as of 2008) <i>then</i> in 1962 .0000000000000000000000000000000003595461800933657761028850347139% of all marriages ended in divorce.</p>
<p><i>S.A.T. scores, previously stable, declined remarkably.</i><br />
Space Race + consistently underfunded schools = falling grades. The solution isn't more Jesus, it's textbooks from this decade in small classes taught by teachers that aren't perilously close to the poverty line.</p>
<p><i>The high principles that made America great were lost.</i><br />
Don't get me wrong, the 60's was a period of massive social upheaval, but a return to the imagined 50's won't bring back the idealized America that never existed. The 50's Mom was only happy in the kitchen because she was medicated (either professionally or "self"), and now she has to work because the modern dad doesn't make enough money for the family and the house and the insurance and college. The 50's dad can't exist now because his good, solid union job moved to China. The 50's kid still exists, but can't roam anymore because his parents are scared shitless about...everything (whereas in the 50's they were just afraid of Commies. And Mexicans. And Catholics. And brown people. And comic books. And rock 'n' roll music. And...). Most of that is economic, some of that is civil rights, little if any of that is spiritual (except in the sense that religion has been both for and against every social movement ever. Abolution? Both sides. Women's suffrage? Both sides. To one group socialism is evil, while to another it's liberation theology, and is good.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49842</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49842</guid>
		<description>cyrus&#039; latest arguments are an excellent illustration of the maxim, &quot;When the facts and the law are against you, pound the table.&quot; Small surprise that he&#039;s declined to address any of the arguments or evidence posed by anyone in this thread - the clergymen of the founding era who attacked the Constitution as &quot;godless&quot;, the Treaty of Tripoli, the fabricated quotes from David Barton, the theocratic nature of the original colonies, or even the arguments raised in my original post - and is instead acting as if America&#039;s status as a &quot;Christian nation&quot; can be established through mere stubborn repetition.

Also, I&#039;m especially pleased by Modusoperandi&#039;s incisive point (another one cyrus refuses to acknowledge, naturally) that the supposedly more godly America of the founding era enslaved Africans, slaughtered Native Americans, denied women the vote, and did many other things now recognized as immoral. Those inconvenient facts do tend to trip up conservatives who unapologetically yearn for the past, and I&#039;m rather impressed by the way cyrus manages the contortions necessary to praise the modern era&#039;s social advances while simultaneously decrying us as godless heathens who&#039;ve strayed from the true path laid down by our predecessors. A freethinker would probably say that the possibility of self-correction was built into the American social contract from the beginning, and we can praise our founders for their foresight in setting up such a system &lt;i&gt;without&lt;/i&gt; excusing the other evils they committed.

I find it fascinating that the Christian-nation propaganda has spread even to evangelicals in other countries, who presumably have no ideological stake in its being true. It may be that the virulent strain of know-nothingism that&#039;s infected the religious right is dragging evangelical Christianity all around the world down to the lowest common denominator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cyrus' latest arguments are an excellent illustration of the maxim, "When the facts and the law are against you, pound the table." Small surprise that he's declined to address any of the arguments or evidence posed by anyone in this thread - the clergymen of the founding era who attacked the Constitution as "godless", the Treaty of Tripoli, the fabricated quotes from David Barton, the theocratic nature of the original colonies, or even the arguments raised in my original post - and is instead acting as if America's status as a "Christian nation" can be established through mere stubborn repetition.</p>
<p>Also, I'm especially pleased by Modusoperandi's incisive point (another one cyrus refuses to acknowledge, naturally) that the supposedly more godly America of the founding era enslaved Africans, slaughtered Native Americans, denied women the vote, and did many other things now recognized as immoral. Those inconvenient facts do tend to trip up conservatives who unapologetically yearn for the past, and I'm rather impressed by the way cyrus manages the contortions necessary to praise the modern era's social advances while simultaneously decrying us as godless heathens who've strayed from the true path laid down by our predecessors. A freethinker would probably say that the possibility of self-correction was built into the American social contract from the beginning, and we can praise our founders for their foresight in setting up such a system <i>without</i> excusing the other evils they committed.</p>
<p>I find it fascinating that the Christian-nation propaganda has spread even to evangelicals in other countries, who presumably have no ideological stake in its being true. It may be that the virulent strain of know-nothingism that's infected the religious right is dragging evangelical Christianity all around the world down to the lowest common denominator.</p>
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		<title>By: Thumpalumpacus</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49839</link>
		<dc:creator>Thumpalumpacus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/10/is-america-a-christian-nation.html#comment-49839</guid>
		<description>Hmph, I wrote &quot;Voltaire&quot;, but meant Montesquieu.  Apologies.

And, Cyrus, I refer you to the 11th article of the Treaty of Tripoli:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

source:http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmph, I wrote "Voltaire", but meant Montesquieu.  Apologies.</p>
<p>And, Cyrus, I refer you to the 11th article of the Treaty of Tripoli:</p>
<blockquote><p>Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.</p></blockquote>
<p>source:http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html</p>
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