Comments on: Deo Vindice! http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:09:52 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: OMGF http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-69771 OMGF Mon, 16 Jan 2012 12:19:26 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-69771 And that has what to do with the OP and how does it affect the arguments contained herein? I love when people start off chasitizing others for being know-it-alls and then post completely irrelevant crap to show how much they know. And that has what to do with the OP and how does it affect the arguments contained herein? I love when people start off chasitizing others for being know-it-alls and then post completely irrelevant crap to show how much they know.

]]> By: AParr http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-69768 AParr Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:02:24 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-69768 It's always grand to see the know-it-alls, who forget that Lincoln only attempted to free slaves in the Southern States not the four border, slave-holding states of the Union. And Grant's wife must have freed her slaves after everyone else just for "safe-keeping" It's always grand to see the know-it-alls, who forget that Lincoln only attempted to free slaves in the Southern States not the four border, slave-holding states of the Union. And Grant's wife must have freed her slaves after everyone else just for "safe-keeping"

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63846 Ebonmuse Wed, 23 Feb 2011 00:35:17 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63846 <blockquote>I've noticed that this thread has a unfailing tendency to wring neo-Confederate sympathizers out of the woodwork every few months.</blockquote> In this case, it may be related to the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/us/21davis.html" rel="nofollow">150th anniversary of the South's attempted secession</a>, which has probably left slavery's modern advocates feeling a bit bolder than usual. I'm also amused to note that in all of Zacharias' angry sputtering, he never manages to identify any statement of fact in my post that he actually disagrees with.

I've noticed that this thread has a unfailing tendency to wring neo-Confederate sympathizers out of the woodwork every few months.

In this case, it may be related to the 150th anniversary of the South's attempted secession, which has probably left slavery's modern advocates feeling a bit bolder than usual. I'm also amused to note that in all of Zacharias' angry sputtering, he never manages to identify any statement of fact in my post that he actually disagrees with.

]]> By: OMGF http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63835 OMGF Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:27:30 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63835 I'm confused. Zacharias is attacking Ebon for talking about how the Southern states evoked god as justification and claimed god was on their side, and then explicitly states that Ebon is correct about it. I think that qualifies as an own goal. I'm confused. Zacharias is attacking Ebon for talking about how the Southern states evoked god as justification and claimed god was on their side, and then explicitly states that Ebon is correct about it. I think that qualifies as an own goal.

]]> By: Andrew T. http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63834 Andrew T. Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:22:43 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63834 I've noticed that this thread has a unfailing tendency to wring neo-Confederate sympathizers out of the woodwork every few months. Given that the Confederacy was a <a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-confederacy-a-christian-theocracy.html" rel="nofollow">Christian theocracy</a>, I'm glad Zacharias has enough integrity to admit just that. I would also suggest he check his facts with <a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2011/01/why-the-confederate-states-seceded.html" rel="nofollow">this piece</a>, since the site author wrote it specifically for him. I've noticed that this thread has a unfailing tendency to wring neo-Confederate sympathizers out of the woodwork every few months. Given that the Confederacy was a Christian theocracy, I'm glad Zacharias has enough integrity to admit just that.

I would also suggest he check his facts with this piece, since the site author wrote it specifically for him.

]]> By: Zacharias http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63826 Zacharias Tue, 22 Feb 2011 09:09:24 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63826 I am relieved that it didn't take more than a few seconds of time to null down the obvious here. The daylight atheist or maybe just yourself would defend your faith by misleading judgment upon the history of a pro-Christian nation like the C.S.A. You are clearly abusive about not so much an advisory but rather just a people that disagreed with your feelings. God forbid! "Motto of the Slave holding Confederate States of America"? Based on how governments usually retell failed revolutions like that of the Southern states its easy to see how England would refer to the states in the revolution as slave holding states if we'd lost the War for Independence or War of 1812. Like yourself the victors in the War Between the Confederate and United States did not share the values with the vanquished foe. On one hand the South saw itself as free. On the other hand the North didn't agree. On one hand the South engraved "Deo Vindice" into its brief national heart. Brigadier General Lewis Armisted swore "Trust in God and fear nothing," before being fatally wounded leading a Virginia brigade in Pickett's Charge July 3, 1863. A regiment of volunteers from Louisiana carried the design of the first national flag of the Confederacy with a battle cry stiched into the fabric by their ladies. "Trust in God. Fear Nothing!" On the other hand you believe that every act of beauty, courage, freedom, or love is from an event that is actually as illusive to you as God is, the big bang. Whether you win a war over a people that wanted independence from you and yours' or just have a different faith there begins, sadly unsurprisingly, self righteous contempt. It is as predictable a fact as obvious are the true reasons for your alternative history. You vindictively and falsely compared the history of Germany with the history of South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, and the southern part of New Mexico and Arizona. Of coarse! It happens to matter that during the War Between the Confederate and United States Lincoln and his government resembled Nazis and Hitler better than any other example of the period. This observation is obliged by the evidence of the type of war of invasion and blockade by the people of the Northern states and the unsettling power Lincoln made for himself while leading it all. Just as Poland, France, and the USSR was invaded by Adolph so too was Virginia, South Carolina, or Georgia by Lincoln's yankees. And when you study the obscene rule that Abraham used with his presidency against the office of the past you'll find a more accurate view of what is compared with what in history! Lastly, you are sickly wrong for comparing the ancestors of the hundreds of thousands of Southerners that fought Hitler in World War 2 to that particular dictator. Appealing to your faith by attempting to diminish the true history of a place and people of an opposing one reflects as poorly on you as it does dishonorably on your values or lack of them. Deo Vindice! This is the clearest truth of all. I am relieved that it didn't take more than a few seconds of time to null down the obvious here. The daylight atheist or maybe just yourself would defend your faith by misleading judgment upon the history of a pro-Christian nation like the C.S.A. You are clearly abusive about not so much an advisory but rather just a people that disagreed with your feelings. God forbid!
"Motto of the Slave holding Confederate States of America"? Based on how governments usually retell failed revolutions like that of the Southern states its easy to see how England would refer to the states in the revolution as slave holding states if we'd lost the War for Independence or War of 1812. Like yourself the victors in the War Between the Confederate and United States did not share the values with the vanquished foe.
On one hand the South saw itself as free. On the other hand the North didn't agree.
On one hand the South engraved "Deo Vindice" into its brief national heart. Brigadier General Lewis Armisted swore "Trust in God and fear nothing," before being fatally wounded leading a Virginia brigade in Pickett's Charge July 3, 1863. A regiment of volunteers from Louisiana carried the design of the first national flag of the Confederacy with a battle cry stiched into the fabric by their ladies. "Trust in God. Fear Nothing!" On the other hand you believe that every act of beauty, courage, freedom, or love is from an event that is actually as illusive to you as God is, the big bang.
Whether you win a war over a people that wanted independence from you and yours' or just have a different faith there begins, sadly unsurprisingly, self righteous contempt. It is as predictable a fact as obvious are the true reasons for your alternative history.
You vindictively and falsely compared the history of Germany with the history of South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, and the southern part of New Mexico and Arizona. Of coarse! It happens to matter that during the War Between the Confederate and United States Lincoln and his government resembled Nazis and Hitler better than any other example of the period. This observation is obliged by the evidence of the type of war of invasion and blockade by the people of the Northern states and the unsettling power Lincoln made for himself while leading it all. Just as Poland, France, and the USSR was invaded by Adolph so too was Virginia, South Carolina, or Georgia by Lincoln's yankees. And when you study the obscene rule that Abraham used with his presidency against the office of the past you'll find a more accurate view of what is compared with what in history! Lastly, you are sickly wrong for comparing the ancestors of the hundreds of thousands of Southerners that fought Hitler in World War 2 to that particular dictator.
Appealing to your faith by attempting to diminish the true history of a place and people of an opposing one reflects as poorly on you as it does dishonorably on your values or lack of them.
Deo Vindice! This is the clearest truth of all.

]]> By: Marcus http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63333 Marcus Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:01:45 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-63333 What the hay, I'll give my two cents. Civil war; secession was legal, even Lincoln said so, as well as other major political thinkers leading up to that poin in history. So...that's that. Difference between commoners shouting Latin and JFK's Berlin speech should be obvious. One man vs. multitudes; lived in times of mass education vs. times of mass illiteracy; Latin was language of the educated and powerful, not the peasantry. As far as thinking people goes, a peasant mass shouting what was a closely guarded language of the clerical and ruling class should be treated with great skepticism. As for the Nazis, obviously God wasn't on their side. That ends that argument. Stop simplifying history for the sake of cheap points. It's not simple, and it never will be. Have a wonderful day. What the hay, I'll give my two cents. Civil war; secession was legal, even Lincoln said so, as well as other major political thinkers leading up to that poin in history. So...that's that. Difference between commoners shouting Latin and JFK's Berlin speech should be obvious. One man vs. multitudes; lived in times of mass education vs. times of mass illiteracy; Latin was language of the educated and powerful, not the peasantry. As far as thinking people goes, a peasant mass shouting what was a closely guarded language of the clerical and ruling class should be treated with great skepticism. As for the Nazis, obviously God wasn't on their side. That ends that argument. Stop simplifying history for the sake of cheap points. It's not simple, and it never will be. Have a wonderful day.

]]> By: heliobates http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-62079 heliobates Wed, 22 Dec 2010 06:22:35 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-62079 Oops. Rick is arguing the exact opposite point, and I didn't read closely enough. Sorry all, nothing to see here. Move along. Oops. Rick is arguing the exact opposite point, and I didn't read closely enough.

Sorry all, nothing to see here. Move along.

]]> By: heliobates http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-62078 heliobates Wed, 22 Dec 2010 06:05:26 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-62078 <blockquote>I can cite many persons who went clinically insane or destroyed themselves and others in flagrant ways while their life flew the banner of atheism (hugging horses, shooting their classmates, etc.),</blockquote> So, now atheism causes syphilis? Don't you think your examples should support the points that you're making, when you're attempting to upbraid someone else for not supporting his argument correctly?

I can cite many persons who went clinically insane or destroyed themselves and others in flagrant ways while their life flew the banner of atheism (hugging horses, shooting their classmates, etc.),

So, now atheism causes syphilis?

Don't you think your examples should support the points that you're making, when you're attempting to upbraid someone else for not supporting his argument correctly?

]]> By: Kevin C. http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-62072 Kevin C. Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:12:47 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-62072 To be on the defense of non-extremist religious people, the North didn't think they were contradicting the will of God when they fought the twisted South. Although a larger portion of the Bible would probably side with the racism that Southern extremists portrayed in their actions, the Northerners were able to pick and choose the best parts to fit their goals. To be on the defense of non-extremist religious people, the North didn't think they were contradicting the will of God when they fought the twisted South.
Although a larger portion of the Bible would probably side with the racism that Southern extremists portrayed in their actions, the Northerners were able to pick and choose the best parts to fit their goals.

]]> By: Pete Black http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-60517 Pete Black Fri, 22 Oct 2010 04:29:41 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-60517 While religion may, or may not, have been the driving force behind Hitler's war machine, it was certainly a primary consideration. In 1932, of 420 banks in the city of Berlin, 412 were owned by Jews. (I'm not going to do your research for you) The German state was in financial turmoil, trying to recover from the devastation of WWI. Hitler took advantage of this situation by painting Jews as the cause of all of his nation's problems, thereby making them the scapegoat to be sacrificed for the greater good. He was very charismatic, a speaker unparalleled in 20th century Germany, and he used this ability to the utmost. Whether or not he claimed to be a christian, his actions clearly bore witness to the evil in his heart. Countless atrocities have been committed in the name of God - does that make religion wrong? Of course not! Anyone can claim to be anything, but actions always speak louder than words. Hitler was merely an opportunistic madman. While religion may, or may not, have been the driving force behind Hitler's war machine, it was certainly a primary consideration. In 1932, of 420 banks in the city of Berlin, 412 were owned by Jews. (I'm not going to do your research for you) The German state was in financial turmoil, trying to recover from the devastation of WWI. Hitler took advantage of this situation by painting Jews as the cause of all of his nation's problems, thereby making them the scapegoat to be sacrificed for the greater good.
He was very charismatic, a speaker unparalleled in 20th century Germany, and he used this ability to the utmost. Whether or not he claimed to be a christian, his actions clearly bore witness to the evil in his heart. Countless atrocities have been committed in the name of God - does that make religion wrong? Of course not! Anyone can claim to be anything, but actions always speak louder than words. Hitler was merely an opportunistic madman.

]]> By: Caiphen http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-54457 Caiphen Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:51:36 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/11/deo-vindice.html#comment-54457 One thing that I have to say about religious intolerance. When I was a christian one thing that I said just after our meeting in Halifax Canada to now a long term Jewish friend. 'It was you people who killed Jesus.' I now shudder at my then religiously inspired antisemetism. She's now one the best friends I have. I'm thankful I'm now an atheist, it's the only rational stance to take. One thing that I have to say about religious intolerance. When I was a christian one thing that I said just after our meeting in Halifax Canada to now a long term Jewish friend. 'It was you people who killed Jesus.' I now shudder at my then religiously inspired antisemetism. She's now one the best friends I have.

I'm thankful I'm now an atheist, it's the only rational stance to take.

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