I mean, when you have no one to turn too to help solve a turning point in your life, what do you do? Do you just talk to yourself all the time? (I'm not being cheeky - I'm asking - again - out of ignorance).

I suspect that we all turn to others that we know as well. Maybe we'll ask someone we think is wise, or someone who has had a similar experience, or maybe we'll ask someone close to us who can help us guide ourselves. In the end, however, it is not god that anyone turns to, but ourselves, since we are the ultimate arbiters of what we do. We might "ask god" for guidance, but what we are really doing is turning to our own conscience as ably pointed out by Nes.

I mean, when you have no one to turn too to help solve a turning point in your life, what do you do? Do you just talk to yourself all the time?

Yes, actually, I do talk to myself all the time; how did you know? ;-)

More seriously, I think you at least partially answered your own question without realizing it:

But I'd rather teach abstinence to my son, let him know about the consequences should he chose otherwise. I'm not going to stick my head under a pillow. From there it's his own conscience that will help him make his decisions. [Emphasis added.]

More later.

Listen, I'm real easy going - honest. I didn't come to bash your lack of religion here, so I'd appreciate some tolerance.

I don't doubt that, and by no means does my response attack you - it attacks your ideas regarding prostitution and belief in god, the latter of which is an idea I don't feel deserves respect. I can tolerate the idea in that I'm not going to tell you that you can't hold it as your opinion, but it's still capable of being aggrivating.

May I ask then since you pointed out my notes on God or the Father etc. (and the following is really out of ignorance) since you have no religion, how does that make you feel? I mean, when you have no one to turn too to help solve a turning point in your life, what do you do? Do you just talk to yourself all the time? (I'm not being cheeky - I'm asking - again - out of ignorance).

The idea of religion bothers me on a number of levels, the main of which being it makes arguments that do not base themselves in evidence (i.e. faith), which for some reason is accepted as a virtue (how is believing something despite evidence for it good?), and also that religion likes to elevate morals and people above everyone else.
When it gets to a point in my life that I have a problem that needs solving, I normally sit down and think about it rationally, figure out what I want to achieve and how I can best achieve it, what steps to take and what I hope their outcome will be. Do some research into how other people have solved this problem, and if I have people available who's opinions on the subject I value, I will ask them and take them into account if I find them relevent. The big part of all that being when I do encounter a problem I actually try to fix it and make sure it's no longer a problem, instead of just try to feel better about it for the moment. But yes, it's a lot talking to myself, so to speak, and planning and weighing options.

I can see that you are confident in your nonfaith. But those who do bash my religion I like to ask: if you can introduce to me someone as profound, loving, giving, an excellent teacher in life skills and morals as Him. it'd be great to meet him (or her). I'm not shy to say it certainly isn't me. You?

I'm not to whom you're referring, but I think I get the idea you're trying to put across, so let me add this. When you look to your religion for a source of morality, you do so selectively. As has been mentioned on this site many times before, to try and follow the morality of the religion correctly would be impossible because it contradicts itself and our national laws time and again. Morality, however, is not something stagnant; it changes based on the situation at hand. There needs to be open discussion of what is right and wrong based on it's effects and the factors at hand. It's never as simple as "this is right and this is wrong always".

But I'd rather teach abstinence to my son, let him know about the consequences should he chose otherwise. I'm not going to stick my head under a pillow. From there it's his own conscience that will help him make his decisions.

Abstinence is one part of the discussion about sex, but as evidenced by it being the policy of many of our public schools to only teach that, and no condom use or birth control, or how sex can be a good thing, and the massive failures of that program to prevent STDs or teen pregnancy, one might be led to think there's a lot that needs to be said about the subject.

What I might lend as advice for teaching children, as well as safe sex education, perhaps education as to how to build and maintain a healthy and honest relationships.

I don't think it should be up to anyone - especially our schools, to teach about sex.
That's family business. If the parents know how they got pregnant in the first place, it's not too difficult for them to talk to their children.

I didn't say parents were perfect, I just mentioned that it is their obligation. If they didn't have intercourse, no babies. How much more basic can it get? Accidents happen. What condom company toots 100% safety? I'm simply basing the unwanted child on this pretense - prostitution with intercourse and an accident. Sorry if I didn't relate that well enough.

I disagree; it's absolutely important for schools to teach that kind of education and teach it accurately and throughly. Yes, parents aren't perfect, and many parents are just as uneducated about the subject as their children, and likely won't be able to tell their children what they should know, since the parents dont know it themselves. Yes, teaching children to abstain from sex is simple, but is a massive failure when not coupled with the rest of the field of information.
Also yes, it is possible for a prostitute to get pregnant or a disease, either from lack of proper information, preventative measures, or the occassional mistake. Condoms are not 100% effective, but when used properly at 95-99% effective. When used together with birthcontrol the risk of that accident becomes so low as to be almost non-existant, or at least lower than the risk of most things we accept in life.
Even if that fails, there is always the option of an abortion as the last line of protection.

If I didn't have a faith - that's a great point. I don't really know how I'd feel about life, maybe of your opinion perhaps....?

You might want to refer to the post about deconversions into atheism. It's posted a short while back. Personally, I've enjoyed a great life so far, all things considered, without any religion.

I wonder who made up those rules to begin with?

People did. I can recommend the book "The Moral Animal" as a good starting point for that subject. The general answer to the question is our evolution has.

This step, I think, would truly eliminate most of the social ills that come with prostitution.

Rather than targetting prostitution, which only makes those prostitutes into criminals and stigmatized them socially, trying to address the problems that lead to prostitution would be a better step if the goal is to dimish it's prevelence.

All I can say is if the physical abuse will continue irregardless of legalization, and the potential of unwanted children and disease (nothing is 100% except abstinence)is there, then teach abstinence first and foremost.

Abstience only education has been shown to not work. Yes, I do doubt we will ever completely stop the phyiscal abuse or spread of disease, but through the proper education and social steps we can try to greatly reduce it. Making it illegal just pushes the problems unground and makes sure they do not get dealt with.

ps - sorry I just don't have a handle on how you all cut 'n paste.

The way I do it is to highlight the text, copy it and paste in the comment box, then at the beginning type (I need to type it this way so it doesn't just blockquote it)
, and then at the end of the part you're pasting, .

Listen, I'm real easy going - honest. I didn't come to bash your lack of religion here, so I'd appreciate some tolerance. May I ask then since you pointed out my notes on God or the Father etc. (and the following is really out of ignorance) since you have no religion, how does that make you feel? I mean, when you have no one to turn too to help solve a turning point in your life, what do you do? Do you just talk to yourself all the time? (I'm not being cheeky - I'm asking - again - out of ignorance).

I can see that you are confident in your nonfaith. But those who do bash my religion I like to ask: if you can introduce to me someone as profound, loving, giving, an excellent teacher in life skills and morals as Him. it'd be great to meet him (or her). I'm not shy to say it certainly isn't me. You?

Anyhow - lots of comments - WOW. I just stumbled upon this conversation because I was checking out prostitution.

The whole post was about prostitution right? Meaning paid for sex.

Whoever wrote "there are other kinds of sex..." for sure. I suppose I didn't put any words regarding strictly intercourse in my writing.

You know, I'm not out to change the world on prostitution or sex. But I'd rather teach abstinence to my son, let him know about the consequences should he chose otherwise. I'm not going to stick my head under a pillow. From there it's his own conscience that will help him make his decisions.

I don't think it should be up to anyone - especially our schools, to teach about sex.
That's family business. If the parents know how they got pregnant in the first place, it's not too difficult for them to talk to their children.

I didn't say parents were perfect, I just mentioned that it is their obligation. If they didn't have intercourse, no babies. How much more basic can it get? Accidents happen. What condom company toots 100% safety? I'm simply basing the unwanted child on this pretense - prostitution with intercourse and an accident. Sorry if I didn't relate that well enough.

MY POST: It's the parents who have the sex and who are blessed by God to help create that person. YOUR COMMENT

What about different faiths, or people who worship different gods, or none at all? That argument is complete and total bullshit. I'm not the least bit sorry for having to inform you on that point. While I agree parents have an obligation to care for their children, marriages break down roughly 40 to 50% of the time, which last time I checked, doesn't mean they're blessed by god. (Those things normally don't work 100% of the time) Likewise, I've seen many cases of parents who are together who are just bad parents; Nothing about being married makes them better parents.

MY ANSWER:
Well I'm sorry that you don't see all life as a blessing and I obviously will relate to my God. If I was of different faith, I'd have used that term instead I suppose. If I didn't have a faith - that's a great point. I don't really know how I'd feel about life, maybe of your opinion perhaps....? Regarding divorce and parenting, should that time arise, and for sure, it's rampant here in NA., they still are obliged even though they will now encounter other types of challenges.

++++++++++++++
The fact is that sex can and does have and end result. It's called PROCREATION.

Provided of course that sex in unprotected and vaginal. Different types of sex can be paid for, and varieties of products, namely condoms, IUDs, and birth control, are widely effective and preventing pregnacies from occuring in the first place.
MY REPLY - there's not one item that you mentioned that is 100% safe except abstinence, period.

++++++++++++++
There is a reason why God is called the Father. Because a society without rules or guidance with substance and meaning, it's result will be havoc.

There has never been a society without rules, and that is in no way linked to your figment-of-imagination father figure you have. It's strange, because I always thought the defining feature of a male wasn't his authority, but his penis and testicles. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me about what makes a father, since I seem to be mistaken.
MY REPLY
I wonder who made up those rules to begin with?
figment-of-imagination father - I'm happy to report I have tolerance here =) I don't have all day.
+++++++++++++++++++
Blaming the system starts the argument when it's almost at the end of the ugly cycle.

What argument are you referring to? If this is talking about prostitution then I think you will find, again, how mistaken that notion is. But before I get into that, I need some clarifiction as to what you mean there.
MR REPLY
I'm not here to argue - that's foremost. But this is what triggered my thought:
This step, I think, would truly eliminate most of the social ills that come with prostitution.

++++++++++++++++++
I doubt that most people who are prostitutes turn to that career out of enthusiastic choice. Far more often, it's a last resort for the desperate. By this argument, most of the people - most of the women, I should say - who turn to prostitution would not be doing so if they had other options. Banning the practice would not solve this underlying problem. But here's the important point: permitting it doesn't solve that problem either.
MY REPLY
All I can say is if the physical abuse will continue irregardless of legalization, and the potential of unwanted children and disease (nothing is 100% except abstinence)is there, then teach abstinence first and foremost. For those who engage in prostitution or casual sex, I hope you never do contact those diseases or create an unwanted child.

To me, it's pretty basic stuff here. To others who don't believe in or practice abstinence, man - you guys open up a whole can of worms and are putting a ton of pressure on society. I think we'd all benefit if you could just refrain.

Debs
ps - sorry I just don't have a handle on how you all cut 'n paste.

There is a point I have yet to see anyone bring up - unless I missed it.

The fact is that sex can and does have and end result. It's called PROCREATION.

Birth control. Other kinds of sex. What the other commenters said.

The flippant attitude:
"If the objection is that it's wrong to pay a person for sexual gratification because it treats them as an object to serve our needs, I answer that many other kinds of economic transactions do the same thing."

First, that's not flippant. Second, what about it?

To add to my response is how everyone is trying to fix the problem but misses the boat. It starts with the parents. It's the parents who have the sex and who are blessed by God to help create that person.

What evidence would you offer that God has anything to do with reproduction? As I understood it there are unresolved questions but the basic process of fertilization and implantation is pretty clear and unambiguously biological. It's also not meaningfully different from that of other placental mammals - does that mean God blesses them to create progeny as well?

Parents then can what? Leave it to die? Obviously not. THEIR moral obligation is to feed, nurture, socialize, educate and guide that human as God did so with Jesus. Not let it starve, suffer, get lost and find it's own way.

Their is no foundation for that unwanted child. There is no food. There is no shelter. There is no Momma/Pappa. Where's their due respect?

Absolutely. This why we advocate the use of birth control and the legal availability of abortion, to help ensure that any child born will be wanted and properly cared for. By the way, what does this line of argument have to do with either the original post or the actual position of anyone here.

There is a reason why God is called the Father.

Yes. It's called "sexism."

Because a society without rules or guidance with substance and meaning, it's result will be havoc.

Never mind this argument's irrelevance to what we're actually advocating here. Never mind that it has absolutely no logical relationship to the sentence that preceded it. Who have you encountered arguing that our society should abandon rules and guidance? Can you name even one?

So, on goes the cycle of desperation. There isn't one woman that I have met that decides "hey, I'll become a prostitute, now why didn't I think of that earlier."

How many have you met?

Blaming the system starts the argument when it's almost at the end of the ugly cycle.

Make up your mind.

There's not one person on this planet that can replicate a child with their own hands.

Actually, reproductive cloning is technologically possible at this point, albeit illegal. By the way, what does this have to do with prostitution?

Those that accept prostitution are part of a very big problem that spurs it on and wreaks of emptiness.

I know all these words and I still can't parse this sentence.

It's a sad day for society when even one unwanted child is conceived.

I agree. By the way, what does that have to do with prostitution?

There is another motto: it's called masturbation.

I agree.

Wait, you didn't mean your post? (This, for the record, is the kind of comment that the term "flippant" actually refers to).

Outstanding

The fact is that sex can and does have and end result. It's called PROCREATION.

Provided of course that sex in unprotected and vaginal. Different types of sex can be paid for, and varieties of products, namely condoms, IUDs, and birth control, are widely effective and preventing pregnacies from occuring in the first place.

It's the parents who have the sex and who are blessed by God to help create that person.

What about different faiths, or people who worship different gods, or none at all? That argument is complete and total bullshit. I'm not the least bit sorry for having to inform you on that point. While I agree parents have an obligation to care for their children, marriages break down roughly 40 to 50% of the time, which last time I checked, doesn't mean they're blessed by god. (Those things normally don't work 100% of the time) Likewise, I've seen many cases of parents who are together who are just bad parents; Nothing about being married makes them better parents.

There is a reason why God is called the Father. Because a society without rules or guidance with substance and meaning, it's result will be havoc.

There has never been a society without rules, and that is in no way linked to your figment-of-imagination father figure you have. It's strange, because I always thought the defining feature of a male wasn't his authority, but his penis and testicles. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me about what makes a father, since I seem to be mistaken.

Blaming the system starts the argument when it's almost at the end of the ugly cycle.

What argument are you referring to? If this is talking about prostitution then I think you will find, again, how mistaken that notion is. But before I get into that, I need some clarifaction as to what you mean there.

There's not one person on this planet that can replicate a child with their own hands. Those that accept prostitution are part of a very big problem that spurs it on and wreaks of emptiness. It's a sad day for society when even one unwanted child is conceived.

It's sad that there are unwanted children, it truly is heartbreaking. But to blame prostitution for that is outlanish. How about the failure of schools to teach children about safe sex, or how to maintain a healthy relationship? How about married or divorced parents who don't instill in their children a sense of how to maintain a healthy relationship?

There is another motto: it's called masturbation.

Which is good knowledge to impart to teens, because telling them to just not have sex has done so well in the past, right?

The fact is that sex can and does have and end result. It's called PROCREATION.

The flippant attitude:
"If the objection is that it's wrong to pay a person for sexual gratification because it treats them as an object to serve our needs, I answer that many other kinds of economic transactions do the same thing."

To add to my response is how everyone is trying to fix the problem but misses the boat. It starts with the parents. It's the parents who have the sex and who are blessed by God to help create that person. Parents then can what? Leave it to die? Obviously not. THEIR moral obligation is to feed, nurture, socialize, educate and guide that human as God did so with Jesus. Not let it starve, suffer, get lost and find it's own way.

Their is no foundation for that unwanted child. There is no food. There is no shelter. There is no Momma/Pappa. Where's their due respect?

There is a reason why God is called the Father. Because a society without rules or guidance with substance and meaning, it's result will be havoc.

So, on goes the cycle of desperation. There isn't one woman that I have met that decides "hey, I'll become a prostitute, now why didn't I think of that earlier."

Blaming the system starts the argument when it's almost at the end of the ugly cycle.

There's not one person on this planet that can replicate a child with their own hands. Those that accept prostitution are part of a very big problem that spurs it on and wreaks of emptiness. It's a sad day for society when even one unwanted child is conceived.

There is another motto: it's called masturbation.

Peace.