Fly away? No, but they do talk about a "Murder of Crows" collectively speaking :} Seriously though, 'cos this thread is wearing thin for me, do your homework and present your arguments in that light when you're ready. Good luck

I assume you meant to write for the last 3 words of the second last sentence 'by the TOE'. What does the acronym 'TOE' stand for?

About the creation story. It was taught in the church 1000 years ago that Genesis was not to be taken literally. The teaching probably goes back even further, but don't quote me on this. Especially in view of the science of the last 150 odd years, it's pretty hard to be a fundamentalist and completely deny evolution.

About the last sentence, are you telling me that I should fly away? Ha, ha,ha.

Caiphen

Incidentally, I never said that I take the biblical creation story literally. Is that the impression you guys have?

Your opening comment contains the line

I'm not writing this to convince anybody to believe in my Abrahamic faith

So even if you are not proposing a six day creation as stated in Genesis you are probably looking at an allegorical equivelent (maybe the "six period" fudge found in the Quran). If you are in fact accepting the evidence for the physical age of the Universe and the Earth then your designer is pretty much by default a deistic one and scientifically un-falsifiable. If not, you will be offering some variant of the biblical creation story, which has already been falsified bt the TOE.
As for "ravens", if you will fly into the avery....

Don't take the raven comment seriously, it's supposed to be a joke.

I'll admit, I've never studied abiogenesis hypotheses. I'm opened minded enough to admit that it could change the way I see the world. We'll see.

Incidentally, I never said that I take the biblical creation story literally. Is that the impression you guys have?

Caiphen

Damn, I think I have that same feeling that the poor Cockatoo had the other day when I saw him being ganged up on by a bunch of Ravens. But in speight of this I shall return. Who came up with the term strawman anyway?

I'll see you on a relevant thread. I'll find you! And no, I won't be pretending that none of this ever happened. My head isn't buried in the sand.

I would say HELL. But I don't think that's apropriate with you guys.

Caiphen

To think, something as highly complex as a bacterium just..... fell together. Wow, I'm stunned. I don't know if you write, but if you do, don't bother. Just scramble a whole bunch of letters and throw them in a heap. In a billion years, or maybe in 3.8 billion years, you'll have your testimony on atheism.

This kind of argument does not display a level of understanding of actual hypotheses of abiogenesis that's significantly advanced over the standard creationist tornado-in-a-junkyard nonsense.

I'm about to start the process of studying abiogenetic hypothesis.

If this is your intention, and you really intend to try to understand it, rather than simply rebut it, I hope you will give serious consideration to the metabolism first hypothesis.

Best of luck.

On your 'is this calculation done serially or in parallel?'question. It is in parallel. Multiple locations of these random events were considered. When I present the calc you'll see what I mean when I say multiple locations. Now I was going to give you a paraphrased version of the calculation that you ask for. I don't think I will now. I'll also study it, or restudy it, and get back to you. I'll present it in a format suitable to this discussion and with citations.

Don't think you will, right now,eh? If you refuse to present this data, please stop citing it. Anything else is intellectual dishonesty. And, in terms of parallel calculations, I am not referring to areas where these reactions may've occurred. I'm referring to the numbers of molecules involved, likely into the quadrillions by, say 3.5bya. Now even the longest odds become attainable when just one of your factors are this large.

When someone like me, in the engineering game, having done the AD of Elec Engineering with 20 years experience, sees an impressive product of design we straight away think, the engineer/ engineers/ coordinator involved did a fine job.

When a musician like me hears and appreciates birdsong, I don't assume the bird has attended Julliard; nor do I assume that a deity made it. You see, when assumptions are made, science is threatened; and while it's true that occasionally assumptions must be made in science, they are not so broad as "god". As OMGF has so ably pointed out, your "faith" is really just an unquestioned premise -- an assumption.