<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Poetry Sunday: Gravelly Run</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:09:52 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Dutch</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30508</link>
		<dc:creator>Dutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30508</guid>
		<description>Thanks Mrnaglfar, I&#039;ll bring dessert, you know, for after the pig roast:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mrnaglfar, I'll bring dessert, you know, for after the pig roast:)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mrnaglfar</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30505</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrnaglfar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 01:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30505</guid>
		<description>Dutch,
 
 I think if you really took the heart of the word of the three little pigs into your life, you would understand that the parable points towards hard work being done in reality to help people, rather then building your house (i.e. intellectual foundation) cheaply and assuming everything will be alright, since evil people (i.e. the big bad wolf), will come and blow down your house (i.e. take control of your life and tell you what to do), if it&#039;s not build out of bricks (which stand for science and reason). Also, you&#039;d be able to shelther those who have been deceived (the two pigs who got their house blown down), from the evils of group-think and dogma. 

But don&#039;t worry, there will always be room in the brick house for you when the big bad wolf comes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dutch,</p>
<p> I think if you really took the heart of the word of the three little pigs into your life, you would understand that the parable points towards hard work being done in reality to help people, rather then building your house (i.e. intellectual foundation) cheaply and assuming everything will be alright, since evil people (i.e. the big bad wolf), will come and blow down your house (i.e. take control of your life and tell you what to do), if it's not build out of bricks (which stand for science and reason). Also, you'd be able to shelther those who have been deceived (the two pigs who got their house blown down), from the evils of group-think and dogma. </p>
<p>But don't worry, there will always be room in the brick house for you when the big bad wolf comes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dutch</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30504</link>
		<dc:creator>Dutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30504</guid>
		<description>Mrnaglfar, maybe there is some Biblical truth to the fable

Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 

but then again, foxes appear to be stronger than wolves. 

Neh 4:3  Now Tobiah the Ammonite was by him, and he said, Even that which they build, if a fox go up, he shall even break down their stone wall. 

Ahah, that&#039;s why the original changed from fox to wolf! The author saw his error.

&quot;Makes me wonder why anyone would need the bible.&quot; Oh! The Bible is a start, sort of a map. The Living Word is in you, waiting to be revealed. It is so much more than The Bible. 

But for you,
1Pe 2:8  a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 

But hey, don&#039;t despair, we&#039;ll remember this conversation, indeed we&#039;ll remember a whole lot more when we are all in God.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 

Good day, Dutch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrnaglfar, maybe there is some Biblical truth to the fable</p>
<p>Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; </p>
<p>but then again, foxes appear to be stronger than wolves. </p>
<p>Neh 4:3  Now Tobiah the Ammonite was by him, and he said, Even that which they build, if a fox go up, he shall even break down their stone wall. </p>
<p>Ahah, that's why the original changed from fox to wolf! The author saw his error.</p>
<p>"Makes me wonder why anyone would need the bible." Oh! The Bible is a start, sort of a map. The Living Word is in you, waiting to be revealed. It is so much more than The Bible. </p>
<p>But for you,<br />
1Pe 2:8  a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. </p>
<p>But hey, don't despair, we'll remember this conversation, indeed we'll remember a whole lot more when we are all in God.<br />
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. </p>
<p>Good day, Dutch</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mrnaglfar</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30490</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrnaglfar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30490</guid>
		<description>Dutch,

 So the bible&#039;s all parable then? Makes me wonder why anyone would need the bible, instead of oh I don&#039;t know, let&#039;s say the three little pigs; I&#039;m sure they teach comperable morals, at least no one gets stoned in the three little pigs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dutch,</p>
<p> So the bible's all parable then? Makes me wonder why anyone would need the bible, instead of oh I don't know, let's say the three little pigs; I'm sure they teach comperable morals, at least no one gets stoned in the three little pigs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dutch</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30487</link>
		<dc:creator>Dutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30487</guid>
		<description>All parable Terrence - never happened on our plane. I haven&#039;t studied averyone of your mentioned parables(dark sayings, allegory etc.), but I hope to. Water, for example, is a very BIG parabolic word. I have studied cloud(s) to some extent, and it has been very rewarding. 

How about this quote from &quot;Judges.&quot; You could really use this to poke fun at The Bible.

Jdg 9:10  And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us. 
Jdg 9:11  But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees? 
Jdg 9:12  Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us. 
Jdg 9:13  And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? 
Jdg 9:14  Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us.

Talking trees? Maybe the writer of these verses saw either The Wizard of Oz or Lord of The Rings? Then again, the parable is somewhat answered by in the following verse - Jesus had jst healed a blind man.(being blind means you have no understanding)

Mar 8:24  And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

Good day, Dutch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All parable Terrence - never happened on our plane. I haven't studied averyone of your mentioned parables(dark sayings, allegory etc.), but I hope to. Water, for example, is a very BIG parabolic word. I have studied cloud(s) to some extent, and it has been very rewarding. </p>
<p>How about this quote from "Judges." You could really use this to poke fun at The Bible.</p>
<p>Jdg 9:10  And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us.<br />
Jdg 9:11  But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees?<br />
Jdg 9:12  Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us.<br />
Jdg 9:13  And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?<br />
Jdg 9:14  Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us.</p>
<p>Talking trees? Maybe the writer of these verses saw either The Wizard of Oz or Lord of The Rings? Then again, the parable is somewhat answered by in the following verse - Jesus had jst healed a blind man.(being blind means you have no understanding)</p>
<p>Mar 8:24  And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.</p>
<p>Good day, Dutch</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: terrence</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30465</link>
		<dc:creator>terrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30465</guid>
		<description>God used to be quite forthcoming in biblical times - flooding the earth, turning staffs into snakes, dropping food from heaven, parting seas, talking out of burning bushes, turning wives into salt, becoming human, getting killed then coming to life again, walking on water, etc -- you&#039;d have to be pretty dense to be an atheist. So how come I gotta have a willing, searching, believing mind and a very strong desire? 2-6,000 years ago people caught a break, but for me, He&#039;s gotta play hard to get?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God used to be quite forthcoming in biblical times - flooding the earth, turning staffs into snakes, dropping food from heaven, parting seas, talking out of burning bushes, turning wives into salt, becoming human, getting killed then coming to life again, walking on water, etc -- you'd have to be pretty dense to be an atheist. So how come I gotta have a willing, searching, believing mind and a very strong desire? 2-6,000 years ago people caught a break, but for me, He's gotta play hard to get?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dutch</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30445</link>
		<dc:creator>Dutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30445</guid>
		<description>Hi  Steve, 
The apparent Biblical inconsistencies are just that, apparent. You, nor anybody here is going to pursue a knowledge of God, and I know that. I believe it is a lot easier to be an atheist...when you die, that&#039;s it, finido, no heaven, no hell. As an atheist, you can indulge yourself in whatever you want, any morality is relevant only to what you believe. How easy is that? I was a near atheist, and those thoughts were on my mind. I know you need &quot;empirical&quot; evidence of God&#039;s existence, and I understand that. The paradox is without a willing, searching, and believing mind and a very strong desire you will not get your &quot;evidence.&quot; If today&#039;s mainstream Christians would truly seek Him, and all of them would come into a most sure knowedge of Him, then all of them would give any excess material possesions and excess time to help the rest of humanity - ultimately this will happen, but we are a very long way from that. I keep wondering what will make that happen? Are we going to have some worldwide global disaster, for it seems after a major disastor people seek God and family - I wonder. 
Anyway, apparent inconsistencies are actually good ways to study the precepts of wisdom and understanding. I do not need to &quot;bolster&quot; my position, it is what I know. The Bible says faith = evidence and substance of the unseen realm.

take care, Dutch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi  Steve,<br />
The apparent Biblical inconsistencies are just that, apparent. You, nor anybody here is going to pursue a knowledge of God, and I know that. I believe it is a lot easier to be an atheist...when you die, that's it, finido, no heaven, no hell. As an atheist, you can indulge yourself in whatever you want, any morality is relevant only to what you believe. How easy is that? I was a near atheist, and those thoughts were on my mind. I know you need "empirical" evidence of God's existence, and I understand that. The paradox is without a willing, searching, and believing mind and a very strong desire you will not get your "evidence." If today's mainstream Christians would truly seek Him, and all of them would come into a most sure knowedge of Him, then all of them would give any excess material possesions and excess time to help the rest of humanity - ultimately this will happen, but we are a very long way from that. I keep wondering what will make that happen? Are we going to have some worldwide global disaster, for it seems after a major disastor people seek God and family - I wonder.<br />
Anyway, apparent inconsistencies are actually good ways to study the precepts of wisdom and understanding. I do not need to "bolster" my position, it is what I know. The Bible says faith = evidence and substance of the unseen realm.</p>
<p>take care, Dutch</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Bowen</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30433</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30433</guid>
		<description>Told you we&#039;d get off topic:)

Dutch:
I&#039;m not sure that transposing biblical events to &quot;heaven&quot;, Changes anything. If your collective body corporeal (us in your theology?)is experiencing the world as it appears to be, with the logical and critical faculties we appear to have, the inconsistancies remain. The argument from evil obtains whether we are in heaven, hell or Kansas as we have no objective way of experiencing the world otherwise.
My original response to your post incidentally was not about suffering, merely questioning your claim to &quot;know&quot; God and suggesting that in this context you were actually substituting &quot;Knowledge&quot; for &quot;Faith&quot; to bolster your position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Told you we'd get off topic:)</p>
<p>Dutch:<br />
I'm not sure that transposing biblical events to "heaven", Changes anything. If your collective body corporeal (us in your theology?)is experiencing the world as it appears to be, with the logical and critical faculties we appear to have, the inconsistancies remain. The argument from evil obtains whether we are in heaven, hell or Kansas as we have no objective way of experiencing the world otherwise.<br />
My original response to your post incidentally was not about suffering, merely questioning your claim to "know" God and suggesting that in this context you were actually substituting "Knowledge" for "Faith" to bolster your position.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: terrence</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30425</link>
		<dc:creator>terrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30425</guid>
		<description>How do you know all this? That is to say, HOW do you know all this? You also seem to be unaware that &quot;Jesus&quot; and &quot;Christ&quot; are two completely different entities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you know all this? That is to say, HOW do you know all this? You also seem to be unaware that "Jesus" and "Christ" are two completely different entities.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dutch</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30424</link>
		<dc:creator>Dutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 03:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30424</guid>
		<description>Terrence,
I am sorry, but you missed the point, it is my fault due to my lack of writing skills. 

goyo,
It is a new form of Christianity, as far as I can tell anyway. George Fox, a writer and theologian that lived about 300 years ago, wrote about Christ&#039;s second coming as being in man as opposed to external. So he was/is right about that, and William Penn was a devoted student of his. One of my brothers called me one day while I was driving. He excitedly said to turn on the TV and watch msnbc(I think it was MSNBC). It appears a pastor of a rather large southern church was being interviewed, and he was claiming that our earth is in fact hell. My brother, who wouldn&#039;t believe  what I have been telling him for almost ten years, now he found out this preacher was saying the same thing. My brother still wants to believe Jesus was born in earthly Jerusalem, lying in a manger - the truth seems to hurt his little Christmas story; this is the reason our church pastors have been called names, and once even shoved by other pastors. 
Anyway, it is very hard to explain in such a short space. First of all, The Bible is spritual, the events depicted in the Bible are spiritual(unseen). Adam&#039;s story is spiritual, The Garden of Eden, and it&#039;s &quot;trees&quot; are spiritual and located in heaven. If Adam was created in heaven, then the birth of Christ was/is in heaven. When Christ died, he was laid in a grave(hell, pit, etc.) Christ&#039;s body is us, his body is us which occupy the grave. Yes, everything that has happened to every living thing, past, present and future will be known by everybody once we are in Christ for as jesus said, &quot;I and my father are one.&quot; How can it be otherwise. How can we truly and thoroughly know what evil is, unless we all experience every bad thing that has and will happen?  This is so difficult to explain, especially for me. Terrence, God bless him, doesn&#039;t seem to understand it. In his defense, how God could have created the conditions for all of the suffering, has been asked by others and myself in the past. 
My intention is not to try and convert atheists; this would probably prove futile anyway. The one thing it does do, and this is construed by many atheists as being a bit too convenient, it takes away atheists ridiculing the seeming inconsistencies of The Bible. I have the feeling that some atheists who are not quite sure, and who want answers and a deeper understanding of why we are here in the first place, will be more willing to probe the deeper mysteries of the Bible - virgin ground so to speak. It has been my experience that mainstream Christianity abhors our little group(s) In order to get verification(reward) of our knowledge, you need to be a freethinker, pure in motive, and a dilligent student of the Bible, but never use another opinion(interpretation) of the Bible - this work must be done by you, and better you and another or more. Ultimately, everyone must build his own house. 

I am rambling too much - I have to back-off. Ebonmuse has been most gracious. 

Take care everybody</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrence,<br />
I am sorry, but you missed the point, it is my fault due to my lack of writing skills. </p>
<p>goyo,<br />
It is a new form of Christianity, as far as I can tell anyway. George Fox, a writer and theologian that lived about 300 years ago, wrote about Christ's second coming as being in man as opposed to external. So he was/is right about that, and William Penn was a devoted student of his. One of my brothers called me one day while I was driving. He excitedly said to turn on the TV and watch msnbc(I think it was MSNBC). It appears a pastor of a rather large southern church was being interviewed, and he was claiming that our earth is in fact hell. My brother, who wouldn't believe  what I have been telling him for almost ten years, now he found out this preacher was saying the same thing. My brother still wants to believe Jesus was born in earthly Jerusalem, lying in a manger - the truth seems to hurt his little Christmas story; this is the reason our church pastors have been called names, and once even shoved by other pastors.<br />
Anyway, it is very hard to explain in such a short space. First of all, The Bible is spritual, the events depicted in the Bible are spiritual(unseen). Adam's story is spiritual, The Garden of Eden, and it's "trees" are spiritual and located in heaven. If Adam was created in heaven, then the birth of Christ was/is in heaven. When Christ died, he was laid in a grave(hell, pit, etc.) Christ's body is us, his body is us which occupy the grave. Yes, everything that has happened to every living thing, past, present and future will be known by everybody once we are in Christ for as jesus said, "I and my father are one." How can it be otherwise. How can we truly and thoroughly know what evil is, unless we all experience every bad thing that has and will happen?  This is so difficult to explain, especially for me. Terrence, God bless him, doesn't seem to understand it. In his defense, how God could have created the conditions for all of the suffering, has been asked by others and myself in the past.<br />
My intention is not to try and convert atheists; this would probably prove futile anyway. The one thing it does do, and this is construed by many atheists as being a bit too convenient, it takes away atheists ridiculing the seeming inconsistencies of The Bible. I have the feeling that some atheists who are not quite sure, and who want answers and a deeper understanding of why we are here in the first place, will be more willing to probe the deeper mysteries of the Bible - virgin ground so to speak. It has been my experience that mainstream Christianity abhors our little group(s) In order to get verification(reward) of our knowledge, you need to be a freethinker, pure in motive, and a dilligent student of the Bible, but never use another opinion(interpretation) of the Bible - this work must be done by you, and better you and another or more. Ultimately, everyone must build his own house. </p>
<p>I am rambling too much - I have to back-off. Ebonmuse has been most gracious. </p>
<p>Take care everybody</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: goyo</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30412</link>
		<dc:creator>goyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30412</guid>
		<description>Dutch, I&#039;ve read your other comments on different posts, and you really don&#039;t make much sense. What exactly do you mean that &quot;we&#039;ll all share those bad experiences as if it happened to us&quot;? 
Your theology seems to have come from a combination of jehovah&#039;s witnesses and seventh day adventists.
I know you think that you have a unique way of interpreting the bible, but until you let us in on it, it&#039;s hard to have a conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dutch, I've read your other comments on different posts, and you really don't make much sense. What exactly do you mean that "we'll all share those bad experiences as if it happened to us"?<br />
Your theology seems to have come from a combination of jehovah's witnesses and seventh day adventists.<br />
I know you think that you have a unique way of interpreting the bible, but until you let us in on it, it's hard to have a conversation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: terrence</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30411</link>
		<dc:creator>terrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/poetry-sunday-ix.html#comment-30411</guid>
		<description>I suggest you read carefully &quot;All Possible Worlds&quot; on the main page (www.ebonmusings.org). Now I think I&#039;ll go inflict some cancer, blindness, and torture ad nausem on my children. After all, how are they gonna know how much I love them unless I slap them around every now and then?

And I assume, if one of your loved ones got beheaded, you&#039;d give the same pass to the swordsman that you give God?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suggest you read carefully "All Possible Worlds" on the main page (www.ebonmusings.org). Now I think I'll go inflict some cancer, blindness, and torture ad nausem on my children. After all, how are they gonna know how much I love them unless I slap them around every now and then?</p>
<p>And I assume, if one of your loved ones got beheaded, you'd give the same pass to the swordsman that you give God?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

