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	<title>Comments on: Wolves in the Fold</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: spaceman spif</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-31510</link>
		<dc:creator>spaceman spif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 04:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-31510</guid>
		<description>Reading this particular piece got me to thinking of the history of the Bible.  In my opinion, in the Old Testament it was all about the religious leaders absolute control of the Israelites, mainly through fear and threats.  It was a brutal time in history, so most of God&#039;s laws in the OT were brutal themselves.

By the time the NT rolled around, that control through fear remained although it was softened somewhat with discussion of showing kindness and compassion toward others.

History has shown again and again, it&#039;s amazing the control you can have over large groups of people when you introduce fear into their minds, no matter how irrational.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading this particular piece got me to thinking of the history of the Bible.  In my opinion, in the Old Testament it was all about the religious leaders absolute control of the Israelites, mainly through fear and threats.  It was a brutal time in history, so most of God's laws in the OT were brutal themselves.</p>
<p>By the time the NT rolled around, that control through fear remained although it was softened somewhat with discussion of showing kindness and compassion toward others.</p>
<p>History has shown again and again, it's amazing the control you can have over large groups of people when you introduce fear into their minds, no matter how irrational.</p>
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		<title>By: Mathew Wilder</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-31059</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew Wilder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-31059</guid>
		<description>I see what you did there, Alex.

(Jolly good show.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see what you did there, Alex.</p>
<p>(Jolly good show.)</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-31011</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-31011</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Take God out of it, if you want - it&#039;s still brutal, and calous. Few care about the unborn.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You&#039;re mistaken there: fortunately, many if not most women in industrial democracies are responsible and compassionate enough not to give birth to children they are not willing and able to adequately care for.

That *is* the kind of caring you&#039;re talking about, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Take God out of it, if you want - it's still brutal, and calous. Few care about the unborn.</p></blockquote>
<p>You're mistaken there: fortunately, many if not most women in industrial democracies are responsible and compassionate enough not to give birth to children they are not willing and able to adequately care for.</p>
<p>That *is* the kind of caring you're talking about, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Foss</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-31009</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Foss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-31009</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;As for &quot;The Silent Scream&quot;, that little piece of misguided propaganda goes back HOW many years now (or DECADES) with procedures and policies that are no longer used! If you are going to talk like you know something, have something to back it up.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m glad someone addressed this, because I would have otherwise. Not only is &quot;Silent Scream&quot; an outdated bit of argumentum ad gross-out-iam, but the procedure described therein was outdated and misleading at the time the film was made, twenty-odd years ago. Moreover, it&#039;s hard to be &quot;brutal&quot; to something that can&#039;t feel pain, like a 12-week-old fetus. There&#039;s hardly a fact in &quot;Silent Scream,&quot; but what it lacks in logos it absolutely makes up for in pathos. The only time it ever ought to be cited is as a perfect example of a bad argument against abortion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As for "The Silent Scream", that little piece of misguided propaganda goes back HOW many years now (or DECADES) with procedures and policies that are no longer used! If you are going to talk like you know something, have something to back it up.</p></blockquote>
<p>I'm glad someone addressed this, because I would have otherwise. Not only is "Silent Scream" an outdated bit of argumentum ad gross-out-iam, but the procedure described therein was outdated and misleading at the time the film was made, twenty-odd years ago. Moreover, it's hard to be "brutal" to something that can't feel pain, like a 12-week-old fetus. There's hardly a fact in "Silent Scream," but what it lacks in logos it absolutely makes up for in pathos. The only time it ever ought to be cited is as a perfect example of a bad argument against abortion.</p>
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		<title>By: DamienSansBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30999</link>
		<dc:creator>DamienSansBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30999</guid>
		<description>Thanks to Mr. Wilder on the bit about encyclicals.  Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Mr. Wilder on the bit about encyclicals.  Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.</p>
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		<title>By: Mathew Wilder</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30983</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew Wilder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30983</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t heard of that, but I&#039;m not surprised! They also supported reactionary governments in Central and South America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven't heard of that, but I'm not surprised! They also supported reactionary governments in Central and South America.</p>
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		<title>By: lpetrich</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30978</link>
		<dc:creator>lpetrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30978</guid>
		<description>Mathew WIlder, have you found anything on the Vatican and Antonio Salazar of Portugal? The Vatican was definitely good buddies with Ante Pavelic of the Ustasha party of Croatia, another thuggy leader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mathew WIlder, have you found anything on the Vatican and Antonio Salazar of Portugal? The Vatican was definitely good buddies with Ante Pavelic of the Ustasha party of Croatia, another thuggy leader.</p>
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		<title>By: shifty</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30976</link>
		<dc:creator>shifty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30976</guid>
		<description>I always find it interesting when apologists defend their positions by saying that a certain belief or interpretation is no longer appropriate because circumstances have changed, or time has passed. Dutch ponders on the relevance of a 100 year old document in todays world. This is the same process we use to evaluate a 2000 year old &quot;document&quot; whose relevance we question.

I think what theists are tacitly admitting to is evolution. Unfortunately, they are blind to the fact that it is continuous. You can&#039;t have it both ways. But this is an evolution that is participatory. 

shifty</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always find it interesting when apologists defend their positions by saying that a certain belief or interpretation is no longer appropriate because circumstances have changed, or time has passed. Dutch ponders on the relevance of a 100 year old document in todays world. This is the same process we use to evaluate a 2000 year old "document" whose relevance we question.</p>
<p>I think what theists are tacitly admitting to is evolution. Unfortunately, they are blind to the fact that it is continuous. You can't have it both ways. But this is an evolution that is participatory. </p>
<p>shifty</p>
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		<title>By: MisterDomino</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30970</link>
		<dc:creator>MisterDomino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30970</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget the statement issued by the Holy Office of the Vatican in 1866 supporting the institution of slavery.

The Church has made mistakes, but everyone has.  We&#039;ll grant them that much leeway.  However, they seem keen on making the same kinds of mistakes over and over again, and this is exacerbated by the fact that whatever doctrine they preach is &quot;infallible.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don't forget the statement issued by the Holy Office of the Vatican in 1866 supporting the institution of slavery.</p>
<p>The Church has made mistakes, but everyone has.  We'll grant them that much leeway.  However, they seem keen on making the same kinds of mistakes over and over again, and this is exacerbated by the fact that whatever doctrine they preach is "infallible."</p>
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		<title>By: Mathew Wilder</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30963</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew Wilder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 03:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30963</guid>
		<description>Also of interest:

Did you know that the Catholic Church had agreeable relations with not one but two evil dictators?

Read the text of the official Catholic concordats (the equivalent of a treaty) between the Church and the Third Reich, and the Church and Franco&#039;s Spain.

Third Reich: http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_ss33co.htm

Franco&#039;s Spain: http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=845&amp;kb_header_id=828&amp;order=kb_rank%20ASC&amp;kb_id=1700</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also of interest:</p>
<p>Did you know that the Catholic Church had agreeable relations with not one but two evil dictators?</p>
<p>Read the text of the official Catholic concordats (the equivalent of a treaty) between the Church and the Third Reich, and the Church and Franco's Spain.</p>
<p>Third Reich: <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_ss33co.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_ss33co.htm</a></p>
<p>Franco's Spain: <a href="http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=845&amp;kb_header_id=828&amp;order=kb_rank%20ASC&amp;kb_id=1700" rel="nofollow">http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=845&amp;kb_header_id=828&amp;order=kb_rank%20ASC&amp;kb_id=1700</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mathew Wilder</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30961</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew Wilder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 03:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30961</guid>
		<description>OT, sorry: If my mom had aborted me, it would be no loss to me, since I never would&#039;ve become who I am today. I think this sort of thinking is wrong, but very common. People think of abortion in terms of their life now suddenly being snuffed out, and yet somehow they still exist and have lost all they had. But that&#039;s not the way it works! A fetus has nothing - no conscious experiences, no memories, not attachments of any sort. They lose nothing, and there is no &quot;spiritual being&quot; around to lament not having had the chance to live a bodily life.

On topic, papal encyclicals are official church teaching. Even if they are not spoken ex cathedra, they are still binding on Catholics. They&#039;re sneaky - you see, there are two ways for a doctrine to be infallible, and in fact, all doctrines are infallible. If they are spoken &quot;from the chair&quot; or if they are held traditionally and taught by the Magisterium. It&#039;s that second part that not many people realize. Everything that the Church teaches is binding upon Catholics. Thankfully most Catholics don&#039;t know or believe this! I think bringing such encyclicals to life is one way to make sure that they never do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT, sorry: If my mom had aborted me, it would be no loss to me, since I never would've become who I am today. I think this sort of thinking is wrong, but very common. People think of abortion in terms of their life now suddenly being snuffed out, and yet somehow they still exist and have lost all they had. But that's not the way it works! A fetus has nothing - no conscious experiences, no memories, not attachments of any sort. They lose nothing, and there is no "spiritual being" around to lament not having had the chance to live a bodily life.</p>
<p>On topic, papal encyclicals are official church teaching. Even if they are not spoken ex cathedra, they are still binding on Catholics. They're sneaky - you see, there are two ways for a doctrine to be infallible, and in fact, all doctrines are infallible. If they are spoken "from the chair" or if they are held traditionally and taught by the Magisterium. It's that second part that not many people realize. Everything that the Church teaches is binding upon Catholics. Thankfully most Catholics don't know or believe this! I think bringing such encyclicals to life is one way to make sure that they never do.</p>
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		<title>By: javaman</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30960</link>
		<dc:creator>javaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/01/wolves-in-the-fold.html#comment-30960</guid>
		<description>Dutch, I think its time that you man up and reponse to Eric, and I am still waiting to hear your inner secret knowledge.I am still open to believing in god if i see some prove, anything, i&#039;ll set the bar low.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dutch, I think its time that you man up and reponse to Eric, and I am still waiting to hear your inner secret knowledge.I am still open to believing in god if i see some prove, anything, i'll set the bar low.</p>
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