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	<title>Comments on: The Religion of Humanity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon,  1 Dec 2008 17:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: javaman</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31668</link>
		<dc:creator>javaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 03:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31668</guid>
		<description>Mapa - I'am sorry, I didn"t mean that we should kill people. It's a buddhist saying that means, don't think you are awake, know you are awake, be it, in silent actions with and to others, moment by moment. Don't talk about it, be it, without words or ideas attached to it. the word buddha is a title, it means a person who woke up ,we all can become buddhas. In lucid dreaming a person is reported to wake up in their dream, knows its a dream and may be able to direct it, have you woken up in this dream yet? Killing the buddha means to stop talking to your self and to be still in mediation or to others who belives they can tell you what buddhist means to you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mapa - I'am sorry, I didn"t mean that we should kill people. It's a buddhist saying that means, don't think you are awake, know you are awake, be it, in silent actions with and to others, moment by moment. Don't talk about it, be it, without words or ideas attached to it. the word buddha is a title, it means a person who woke up ,we all can become buddhas. In lucid dreaming a person is reported to wake up in their dream, knows its a dream and may be able to direct it, have you woken up in this dream yet? Killing the buddha means to stop talking to your self and to be still in mediation or to others who belives they can tell you what buddhist means to you</p>
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		<title>By: steve bowen</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31650</link>
		<dc:creator>steve bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31650</guid>
		<description>It is interesting that this thread has thrown up questions of common humanity. As atheists we are drawn to this forum but the comments to this excellent post of Adam's have highlighted, paradoxically , what a diverse group of individuals we are. Christopher continues his nihistic theme (provocatively? maybe). Others are drawing on Budhist teachings which (depending on your point of view) either are , or are not theistic. Personally, I find it hard to disagree with the thrust of this post  but I'm not sure that "humanist" would be my instinctive choice of label to put on my census form under religion. Like many atheists I feel a strong responsibility towards the condition of my fellow humans, and like many I support charitable human causes when the "spirit" moves me. However contemplating  my response to Adam's thoughts on a religion of humanity I reminded myself that my monthly DD charitable donation goes to Gorillas! Why? because we share a common genetic heritage and only human intervention can preserve them; they can't ever help themselves. My point? On an individual scale, our differences are large measured by our immediate political, cultural and religious biases. On a regional scale, those differences are diluted by common interest, on a global scale differences are further diluted by our common humanity and on a cosmic scale the differences between us and all evolved life are insignificant. This, I assume, is the what Adam means by&lt;blockquote&gt;the cosmos' hierarchy of scale&lt;/blockquote&gt;We occupy a small, insignificant planet, in an insignificant corner of an insignificant galaxy, in an immense if not infinite universe that neither knows nor cares that we exist. &lt;u&gt;There is no God!&lt;/u&gt; If &lt;i&gt; we&lt;/i&gt; don't look after each other and the life that co-exists here with us , no-one else will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting that this thread has thrown up questions of common humanity. As atheists we are drawn to this forum but the comments to this excellent post of Adam's have highlighted, paradoxically , what a diverse group of individuals we are. Christopher continues his nihistic theme (provocatively? maybe). Others are drawing on Budhist teachings which (depending on your point of view) either are , or are not theistic. Personally, I find it hard to disagree with the thrust of this post  but I'm not sure that "humanist" would be my instinctive choice of label to put on my census form under religion. Like many atheists I feel a strong responsibility towards the condition of my fellow humans, and like many I support charitable human causes when the "spirit" moves me. However contemplating  my response to Adam's thoughts on a religion of humanity I reminded myself that my monthly DD charitable donation goes to Gorillas! Why? because we share a common genetic heritage and only human intervention can preserve them; they can't ever help themselves. My point? On an individual scale, our differences are large measured by our immediate political, cultural and religious biases. On a regional scale, those differences are diluted by common interest, on a global scale differences are further diluted by our common humanity and on a cosmic scale the differences between us and all evolved life are insignificant. This, I assume, is the what Adam means by<br />
<blockquote>the cosmos' hierarchy of scale</p></blockquote>
<p>We occupy a small, insignificant planet, in an insignificant corner of an insignificant galaxy, in an immense if not infinite universe that neither knows nor cares that we exist. <u>There is no God!</u> If <i> we</i> don't look after each other and the life that co-exists here with us , no-one else will.</p>
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		<title>By: Mapa</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31640</link>
		<dc:creator>Mapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31640</guid>
		<description>javaman if u meet the buddha on the road .... kiss him . ;) more love less fight</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>javaman if u meet the buddha on the road .... kiss him . ;) more love less fight</p>
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		<title>By: spaceman spif</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31632</link>
		<dc:creator>spaceman spif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31632</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The highest moral value, in fact, is our common humanity and the obligation it confers on us to be good to each other.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

"Be excellent to each other"

&lt;blockquote&gt;When this is more widely recognized - when, not if - then, and only then, we will finally have a religion worthy of our worship. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

"Party on, dudes!!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The highest moral value, in fact, is our common humanity and the obligation it confers on us to be good to each other.</p></blockquote>
<p>"Be excellent to each other"</p>
<blockquote><p>When this is more widely recognized - when, not if - then, and only then, we will finally have a religion worthy of our worship. </p></blockquote>
<p>"Party on, dudes!!"</p>
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		<title>By: javaman</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31630</link>
		<dc:creator>javaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31630</guid>
		<description>If you meet the buddha on the road,......kill him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you meet the buddha on the road,......kill him.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Johnston</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31621</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31621</guid>
		<description>One of the sayings of Buddhism is "I take refuge in the Dharma." The following is a definition of Dharma:"Dharma" usually refers inclusively not just to the sayings of the Buddha but to the later traditions of interpretation and addition that the various schools of Buddhism have developed to help explain and expand upon the Buddha's teachings. The 84,000 different teachings (the Kangyur/bka.'gyur) that the Buddha gave to various types of people based on their needs. The teachings are expedient means of raising doubt in the hearer's own cherished beliefs and view of life; when doubt has opened the door to the truth, the teaching can be put aside. 
Alternately, "dharma" may be seen as an ultimate and transcendent truth which is utterly beyond worldly things, somewhat like the Christian logos, seeing the dharma as referring to the "truth" or ultimate reality or "the way things are". 
hardly non-theistic. From the Wikepedia</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the sayings of Buddhism is "I take refuge in the Dharma." The following is a definition of Dharma:"Dharma" usually refers inclusively not just to the sayings of the Buddha but to the later traditions of interpretation and addition that the various schools of Buddhism have developed to help explain and expand upon the Buddha's teachings. The 84,000 different teachings (the Kangyur/bka.'gyur) that the Buddha gave to various types of people based on their needs. The teachings are expedient means of raising doubt in the hearer's own cherished beliefs and view of life; when doubt has opened the door to the truth, the teaching can be put aside.<br />
Alternately, "dharma" may be seen as an ultimate and transcendent truth which is utterly beyond worldly things, somewhat like the Christian logos, seeing the dharma as referring to the "truth" or ultimate reality or "the way things are".<br />
hardly non-theistic. From the Wikepedia</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31619</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31619</guid>
		<description>Steve Bowen

"It is true that genetically and culturally we all express differences, but we are more similar than different in our basic needs, our physical and emotional drives."

That may be true, but one can't deny that - more often the not - the differences in individuals eclipse the similarities between them.

"Substituting a rational, evidence based and yes "anthropocentric" humanist (isn't that a tautology?) philosophy stikes me a a much more assured route to peaceful co-existance than vague tribal superstition."

But there are many other philosophies to choose from besides primitive superstitions (there all pretty much the same) and humanism: what about objectivism, existentialism or (dare I say it... my personal philosophy) nihilism?  It seems to me that to pick one philosophy and tout it as being intrinsically superior to the alternatives availible is ridiculous...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Bowen</p>
<p>"It is true that genetically and culturally we all express differences, but we are more similar than different in our basic needs, our physical and emotional drives."</p>
<p>That may be true, but one can't deny that - more often the not - the differences in individuals eclipse the similarities between them.</p>
<p>"Substituting a rational, evidence based and yes "anthropocentric" humanist (isn't that a tautology?) philosophy stikes me a a much more assured route to peaceful co-existance than vague tribal superstition."</p>
<p>But there are many other philosophies to choose from besides primitive superstitions (there all pretty much the same) and humanism: what about objectivism, existentialism or (dare I say it... my personal philosophy) nihilism?  It seems to me that to pick one philosophy and tout it as being intrinsically superior to the alternatives availible is ridiculous...</p>
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		<title>By: javaman</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31614</link>
		<dc:creator>javaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 03:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31614</guid>
		<description>When the dala lama was asked ,"if there is no god in Buddhism, what do you worship?, his respond was ,"I worship being awake"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the dala lama was asked ,"if there is no god in Buddhism, what do you worship?, his respond was ,"I worship being awake"</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31611</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31611</guid>
		<description>Just an administrative note, friends: At this point, I strongly suspect Christopher is commenting here just for the sake of provocation.  I'm not going to respond to him any further; I suggest that you all do likewise.

For the Chaplain:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Is "worship" of something a necessary component of religion? Is "worship" a good thing? My current thinking is that "worship" of anything is unhealthy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I second that position. Obedience, respect and recognition, where merited, are appropriate responses to wisdom and authority. To me, the term "worship" implies that the object of worship is somehow on an intrinsically higher level than the giver. I see no basis for such a distinction, so I reject that idea. Teaching people to question, rather than worship, might have gone a long way toward preventing some of the harms that have been perpetrated in a deity's name.

For Alex:

&lt;blockquote&gt;People with ASDs like autism and asperger's do seem to have the same emotions as others but respond to them differently and definitely don't look at the world the same way as neurotypicals; this is a gulf that can be bridged, true, but trivializing it or denying it won't help that.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Granted, in the interest of metaphor, I made that point overly broad. Nevertheless, it's accurate to say that despite cultural differences, and despite the rare biological exceptions, there are hundreds of traits, attitudes, and activities which have been universally found in every human culture that has been studied. &lt;a href="http://www.robotwisdom.com/ai/universals.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Here's&lt;/a&gt; a list of some of them, compiled by Donald E. Brown. It's not too inaccurate to say that, even in cases such as autism, the similarities that unite us are more profound than the differences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just an administrative note, friends: At this point, I strongly suspect Christopher is commenting here just for the sake of provocation.  I'm not going to respond to him any further; I suggest that you all do likewise.</p>
<p>For the Chaplain:</p>
<blockquote><p>Is "worship" of something a necessary component of religion? Is "worship" a good thing? My current thinking is that "worship" of anything is unhealthy.</p></blockquote>
<p>I second that position. Obedience, respect and recognition, where merited, are appropriate responses to wisdom and authority. To me, the term "worship" implies that the object of worship is somehow on an intrinsically higher level than the giver. I see no basis for such a distinction, so I reject that idea. Teaching people to question, rather than worship, might have gone a long way toward preventing some of the harms that have been perpetrated in a deity's name.</p>
<p>For Alex:</p>
<blockquote><p>People with ASDs like autism and asperger's do seem to have the same emotions as others but respond to them differently and definitely don't look at the world the same way as neurotypicals; this is a gulf that can be bridged, true, but trivializing it or denying it won't help that.</p></blockquote>
<p>Granted, in the interest of metaphor, I made that point overly broad. Nevertheless, it's accurate to say that despite cultural differences, and despite the rare biological exceptions, there are hundreds of traits, attitudes, and activities which have been universally found in every human culture that has been studied. <a href="http://www.robotwisdom.com/ai/universals.html" rel="nofollow">Here's</a> a list of some of them, compiled by Donald E. Brown. It's not too inaccurate to say that, even in cases such as autism, the similarities that unite us are more profound than the differences.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyssad</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31609</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyssad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/02/the-religion-of-humanity.html#comment-31609</guid>
		<description>We form deep and meaningful bonds with only some other humans, not all. We constantly hear calls to deny connection with our enemies, terrorists, murderers, possibly abortionists, gays, or heretics, depending on your particular religion. OTOH we also form deep and meaningful bonds with other species (our pets, Jane Goodall’s gorillas,).  In either case, those we don’t form connections with are those we exclude from our ‘mental tribe’. How or why would our ‘tribe’ coincide with ‘all humans’—excluding other species with whom we do form deep and meaningful bonds, yet still including other humans with whom we don’t form such bonds?   

Our perception of the cosmos may necessitate a certain humanistic/anthropomorphic perspective, but it doesn’t follow that we are limited to only that.  Nothing prevents us from excluding certain groups from our ‘tribe’ as theistic religions have done, nor prevents us from seeking connection to all life as Buddhists or Jains have done.  Wouldn’t a rational, evidence based, belief system point to the latter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We form deep and meaningful bonds with only some other humans, not all. We constantly hear calls to deny connection with our enemies, terrorists, murderers, possibly abortionists, gays, or heretics, depending on your particular religion. OTOH we also form deep and meaningful bonds with other species (our pets, Jane Goodall’s gorillas,).  In either case, those we don’t form connections with are those we exclude from our ‘mental tribe’. How or why would our ‘tribe’ coincide with ‘all humans’—excluding other species with whom we do form deep and meaningful bonds, yet still including other humans with whom we don’t form such bonds?   </p>
<p>Our perception of the cosmos may necessitate a certain humanistic/anthropomorphic perspective, but it doesn’t follow that we are limited to only that.  Nothing prevents us from excluding certain groups from our ‘tribe’ as theistic religions have done, nor prevents us from seeking connection to all life as Buddhists or Jains have done.  Wouldn’t a rational, evidence based, belief system point to the latter?</p>
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