Comments on: No Religious Exemptions from Child Abuse Laws http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:09:52 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: J. James http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-58529 J. James Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:49:31 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-58529 C.H.I.L.D! Fight, fight against the dying of the light! Do not go gentle into that good night! I was a child with a terminal disease. If my parents had waited ONE SECOND, I would be dead. In fact, I was one of the first people-all the more remarkable considering I was three- to survive. This treatment of children is evil on a scale not seen since the third Reich. C.H.I.L.D! Fight, fight against the dying of the light! Do not go gentle into that good night! I was a child with a terminal disease. If my parents had waited ONE SECOND, I would be dead. In fact, I was one of the first people-all the more remarkable considering I was three- to survive. This treatment of children is evil on a scale not seen since the third Reich.

]]> By: John http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-38696 John Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:29:55 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-38696 There was such a story here in Australia. However here the parents were sententenced to manslaughter http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/fatal-faith-mother-admits-killing-son/2008/09/15/1221330704484.html There was such a story here in Australia. However here the parents were sententenced to manslaughter
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/fatal-faith-mother-admits-killing-son/2008/09/15/1221330704484.html

]]> By: Alex Weaver http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37952 Alex Weaver Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:46:04 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37952 <blockquote>These people prove that evolution works.</blockquote> Aside from the fact that memetic pestilences aren't genetic, and are still being spread...

These people prove that evolution works.

Aside from the fact that memetic pestilences aren't genetic, and are still being spread...

]]> By: Ben http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37951 Ben Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:48:53 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37951 These people prove that evolution works. These people prove that evolution works.

]]> By: bestonnet http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37518 bestonnet Sun, 03 Aug 2008 07:00:45 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37518 Most of the other industrialised countries don't have it quite so bad, even when they have state churches (at least at the moment, looking through history will give a different perspective). Most of the other industrialised countries don't have it quite so bad, even when they have state churches (at least at the moment, looking through history will give a different perspective).

]]> By: Rosemary Lyndall Wemm http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37386 Rosemary Lyndall Wemm Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:18:55 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37386 This is the sad story of what happens in the religion-mad USA. What happens in other industrialized countries? This is the sad story of what happens in the religion-mad USA. What happens in other industrialized countries?

]]> By: bestonnet http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37239 bestonnet Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:47:35 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37239 Yes, I suspect that most religious people would be outraged at that kind of crap (if only they heard more about it than just a side mention on the TV at night). This is however an example of the possible harm that can (and does) come from religion. Yes, I suspect that most religious people would be outraged at that kind of crap (if only they heard more about it than just a side mention on the TV at night).

This is however an example of the possible harm that can (and does) come from religion.

]]> By: Pastor/Raptor http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37235 Pastor/Raptor Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:22:24 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-37235 Call me a litle late to comment on this, but I don't understand how this limits itself a 'atheists vs religion' thing...Wouldn't people of ANY faith (that doesn't also believe in the active suppression of proven lifesaving medical methods) be upset about this kind of "rather die for our beliefs than prove science is right" crap that Jehova's Witnesses, Christian Scientists, and Scientologists do? Call me a litle late to comment on this, but I don't understand how this limits itself a 'atheists vs religion' thing...Wouldn't people of ANY faith (that doesn't also believe in the active suppression of proven lifesaving medical methods) be upset about this kind of "rather die for our beliefs than prove science is right" crap that Jehova's Witnesses, Christian Scientists, and Scientologists do?

]]> By: goyo http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-34706 goyo Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:21:59 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-34706 Damien: I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying to me. I teach 4th grade. My students are 9-10 years old. They believe exactly what their parents tell them to believe. The parents believe exactly what their pastor tells them, in this case the Watchtower doctrine, which states that under no circumstances should they receive a blood transfusion if their lives are in peril. No matter if that doctrine is stated explicitly in their bible or not, that is what they have to obey if they want to stay Jehovah's Witnesses. If they disobey, they will be disfellowshipped. Now, they can believe or not believe in this particular doctrine all they want, but when they act upon it and allow their child to die for want of a blood transfusion, where does the blame lie? Of course with the parents, but where did they hear of this teaching in the first place? Who came up with the crazy notion that the bible prohibits blood transfusions? Who also puts pressure on the family to "stay the course" and resist all efforts to use a proven medical procedure to save lives? Are you going to say that Jehovah's Witness doctrine is not to blame also? Damien:
I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying to me.
I teach 4th grade. My students are 9-10 years old. They believe exactly what their parents tell them to believe. The parents believe exactly what their pastor tells them, in this case the Watchtower doctrine, which states that under no circumstances should they receive a blood transfusion if their lives are in peril.
No matter if that doctrine is stated explicitly in their bible or not, that is what they have to obey if they want to stay Jehovah's Witnesses. If they disobey, they will be disfellowshipped.
Now, they can believe or not believe in this particular doctrine all they want, but when they act upon it and allow their child to die for want of a blood transfusion, where does the blame lie?
Of course with the parents, but where did they hear of this teaching in the first place? Who came up with the crazy notion that the bible prohibits blood transfusions?
Who also puts pressure on the family to "stay the course" and resist all efforts to use a proven medical procedure to save lives?
Are you going to say that Jehovah's Witness doctrine is not to blame also?

]]> By: OMGF http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-34705 OMGF Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:29:11 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-34705 <blockquote>Unfortunately, I feel obliged to point out that the guilt for "faith inspired" crimes rests on the neglectful parents, not on the other members of their religion, nor on religion as a whole.</blockquote> If someone incites others to violence, isn't the inciter held responsible? If the priest incites the parents to neglect their children until death, doesn't the priest hold some responsibility for the parents' actions?

Unfortunately, I feel obliged to point out that the guilt for "faith inspired" crimes rests on the neglectful parents, not on the other members of their religion, nor on religion as a whole.

If someone incites others to violence, isn't the inciter held responsible? If the priest incites the parents to neglect their children until death, doesn't the priest hold some responsibility for the parents' actions?

]]> By: DamienSansBlog http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-34699 DamienSansBlog Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:38:23 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-34699 Ebon, the <i>Prince v. Massachusetts</i> case you link to is about pamphlets, not medical neglect. Are you perhaps thinking of a different case? If not, would you please explain to me how <i>PvM</i> was used in, for example, the Azevedo case you mentioned, or any other case in the past 64 years that adressed child neglect directly. I agree, of course, that the death of a child for any reason is tragic, and I do think that a case could be made here for neglect, regardless of the beliefs of the neglectors. As you say, neglect is neglect. Neither Witnesses nor anyone else should be allowed to hold their beliefs up as a shield. Unfortunately, I feel obliged to point out that the guilt for "faith inspired" crimes rests on the neglectful parents, not on the other members of their religion, nor on religion as a whole. I should not have to point this out, but it is an easy jump from "these particular believers committed a crime, and used their faith as a pale justification", to "belief itself is a crime". Even atheists are not immune to such jumping. (Goyo, I'm looking at you, I'm afraid.) Ebon, the Prince v. Massachusetts case you link to is about pamphlets, not medical neglect. Are you perhaps thinking of a different case? If not, would you please explain to me how PvM was used in, for example, the Azevedo case you mentioned, or any other case in the past 64 years that adressed child neglect directly.

I agree, of course, that the death of a child for any reason is tragic, and I do think that a case could be made here for neglect, regardless of the beliefs of the neglectors. As you say, neglect is neglect. Neither Witnesses nor anyone else should be allowed to hold their beliefs up as a shield.

Unfortunately, I feel obliged to point out that the guilt for "faith inspired" crimes rests on the neglectful parents, not on the other members of their religion, nor on religion as a whole. I should not have to point this out, but it is an easy jump from "these particular believers committed a crime, and used their faith as a pale justification", to "belief itself is a crime". Even atheists are not immune to such jumping. (Goyo, I'm looking at you, I'm afraid.)

]]> By: Dennis http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-34672 Dennis Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:01:21 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/04/religious-child-abuse.html#comment-34672 I live about a baseball's throw away from the Christian Science Center in Boston. I walk by it from work everyday, and I don't usually pay it any mind, but I was personally invited to a lecture there in a couple weeks by someone outside. This guy: http://www.tfccs.com/lectureplanning/graunke.jhtml is coming to talk about the "The Certainty of Christian Science Healing". I guarantee this happens all the time there, that's what they're all about. I don't know what to do; I don't feel right ignoring the fact that people will show up and believe prayer has an effect in medicine. I suppose I should show up and ask questions loudly about the science if there is a Q&A? I'm new to this. Any suggestions would be helpful. I live about a baseball's throw away from the Christian Science Center in Boston. I walk by it from work everyday, and I don't usually pay it any mind, but I was personally invited to a lecture there in a couple weeks by someone outside. This guy:
http://www.tfccs.com/lectureplanning/graunke.jhtml
is coming to talk about the "The Certainty of Christian Science Healing". I guarantee this happens all the time there, that's what they're all about. I don't know what to do; I don't feel right ignoring the fact that people will show up and believe prayer has an effect in medicine. I suppose I should show up and ask questions loudly about the science if there is a Q&A? I'm new to this. Any suggestions would be helpful.

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