--Maybe, as misterkel suggests, people would be happier huddling in caves - at least, the ones that hadn't died of (now) easily preventable diseases *yet*.--

I mentioned nothing about huddling in caves. I referred to more primitive societies and I am speaking of the strength of extended families and the like versus the breakup of the nuclear family. (I don't remember where I read it, so disregard it.) Many people in the civilized West hate their parents. Certainly science and technology have done great things, but a cheery faced 'Science is perfect' attitude is delusional.

Christopher,

--1. And drunk people tend to be much happier than sober people - does that mean that the drunks are better off?

2. What is the criteria for "happiness" being used here? Remember - "happiness" to one may very well be "sorrow" for another.--

No, drunks are only happier when drunk, and often quite miserable when not. You are describing a temporary state of mind versus a life situation.
For #2 - The criteria is, I assume, a psychological test. As you say, it is relative, but so is 'benefits.'
There is a massive insistence that science is incapable of harm, but it's simply untrue. People may be weary of the arguments against global warming, but that doesn't make them false.

There is a good body of research on the so-called happiness center of the brain.
http://www.crystalinks.com/medbrain.html Scroll down to Tracing the Synapses - it talks about science disproving God.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/libby_purves/article1136398.ece states that scientists found that Buddist monks are significantly happier than other people. They don't have running water or any material possessions. Many of them have lived (not huddled) in caves for years, and have no access to modern medicine, yet they live a long time.

I'm sure this comment will get nailed for whatever reason. You can always find a reason to attack. All I'm saying is that science, as wonderful as it is, may not be the key to happiness, at least in its current manifestation.

After all, Americans might not be the happiest, but after spending time in a place with no sewers, they will sing a different tune.

Yeah, well, there's also pretty good evidence that both individual Buddhists and ESPECIALLY people in majority-Buddhist countries are happier than adherents/countries of other religions, particularly monotheists.

I disagree. Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world.

Likewise, though, I find it hard to believe that primitive peoples who lead short lives full of struggle and pain have a "higher level of personal satisfaction" than someone who benefits from soap and clean water.

Uh huh. Yeah, well, there's also pretty good evidence that both individual Buddhists and ESPECIALLY people in majority-Buddhist countries are happier than adherents/countries of other religions, particularly monotheists. Sure, there's a hell of a lot of other factors to consider before you can do an apples-to-apples comparison of, say, Israel and the U.S. versus Bhutan and Thailand, but it's worth thinking about. I'd say it's definitely nicer to believe one lives in an "impermanent" world rather than a "fallen" one.

Been watching "Land of the Lost" lately?

No thanks, but I'd rather bask in the benefits that progress in Science bring--longer, more comfortable lives, no fear of falling prey to predators nor the neccessity to scour for food with starvation as reward for failure.

Yeah, I bet running from dinosaurs really suxors! ;)

No thanks, but I'd rather bask in the benefits that progress in Science bring--longer, more comfortable lives, no fear of falling prey to predators nor the neccessity to scour for food with starvation as reward for failure. You see, cavemen had their own problems too. And Science is the humaniy's quest to solving our problems.

Religion does not do any of these.

"The sad thing is that most people don't recognise even these arguments for science."
-yunshui
It dosen't matter whether they understand or not. What matters is that the benefits of Science trickle down to them.

"People are measurably less happy in the most advanced societies, as well. Primitive tribes have a far higher degree of personal satisfaction than Americans, for example."

1. And drunk people tend to be much happier than sober people - does that mean that the drunks are better off?

2. What is the criteria for "happiness" being used here? Remember - "happiness" to one may very well be "sorrow" for another.