Wait until you've published that book of yours. (Speaking of, what's the latest news?)

A common xian response to all the supposed witnesses of JC rising into the sky, or his miracles, etc is "they couldn't all have the same hallucination." Putting aside the million and one problems with assuming there were any witnesses of anything in the first place, it seems that, yes they COULD imagine the same thing, or what they think is the same thing.

I spoke to someone a few months ago who related to me that both he and one other person saw a demon while praying together. The crux of his argument was that they BOTH saw it, so it must be real. My response is that they both expected to see something and each fed off the other's description and assertion of "something evil" until it grew into a picture. Of course, a real test would be to ask them separately for specific features, color, and the size of the demon.
This kind of self-induced delusion, hypnosis, whatever, is not too hard to achieve if you're willing and looking for a spiritual experience. In this case: believing is seeing.

Ebon,

As a rule, I don't make fun of people who are clearly mentally ill...

I laughed out loud when I read that sentence immediately following the kookie letter. I don't know if you intended it, but it came off very droll.

Most intellegent people realize that there is no Islamic boogey man, and that very few Americans die from terrorist attacks perpetrated by Muslim groups. This doesn't mean we should ignore the (growing) anger of Muslims, or the role religion plays iviolent acts. Islamism may not be an imminent threat to N. America, but it IS a fast growing movement that brings religious zealotry, intolerant, oppression, and hatred of women and non- believers, with it.

"Muslim mindset"- There IS a common belief among Muslims that insulting Islam or the prophet is a grievous sin, and that everything related to their religion is sacred, and should be respected by every human being as such. Not every follower agrees on the proper punishment for insulting Islam, but the belief in maximum punishment for those actions is common, and called for by Muslim leaders. And no, we can't tell fanatical and moderate Muslims (Or Xtians)apart, unless we hear their views. When moderates follow a religious group (or government) controlled by fanatics, their voices are rarely heard.

The call for punishment grows every day, and is spreading to other countries. Link:
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/darticlen.asp?xfile=data/subcontinent/2008/May/subcontinent_May582.xml&section=subcontinent&col=
I don't think the soldier will get in real trouble- why should he? He did nothing illegal. But more and more Muslims are calling for the most serious punishment possible, via fatwa, others want him to be tried and convicted (better than killing him though).

Sorry for hijacking the thread- it made sense when I started : )

StaceyJW

And anyone calling for the severest of punishment-after an apology- for shooting a book IS A FANATIC.

They're pissed off so the tribal leaders and al-Maliki have to appear tough on offenders in order not to look like puppets (even though they are). I doubt the soldier will get any punishment beyond going home and maybe a "court martial" that will be delayed until the issue blows over followed by a slap on the wrist.

Muslims use threats and violence to cow people worldwide into behaving in a way that they find acceptable to their religion.

I doubt this soldier was unaware of the Muslim mindset, and would be willing to bet that he WAS aware, and disgusted by what he saw.

You've lost me again. What exactly is the "Muslim mindset"? Does it apply to all Muslims? How do we distinguish between the good Muslims and the bad ones?

I don't like religion - any religion. But, the people we decry as "violent" and fear because they want to impose their will are right now being attacked or targeted by the current US administration.

Iraq - under attack
Afghanistan - under attack
Iran - targeted; with the Bush admin revving up the rhetoric.
Syria- possible target;so-called nuclear facilities were purportedly bombed by Israel
Somalia - unauthorized bombing within its borders without even a declaration of war

(and Venezuela - Chavez is supposedly a supporter of terrorists)

I really am wondering if we're not being scared by a fake boogie man, while the real terror state is doing a lot of real killing around the world.

Have we found Bin-Laden, yet? Are we even still looking? Don't you think it's strange that the one guy who supposedly started all this, is still safe in a freaking cave making home movies?

And anyone calling for the severest of punishment-after an apology- for shooting a book IS A FANATIC. An apology was not enough, even after all of the slobbering and Koran kissing, that group is still calling for MORE punishment. They would kill him if they could, and I don't see this as an exaggeration. "Desecration" and "blasphemy" are punishable by death, even for non-Muslims. I can't support that way of thinking.

I am not saying anything good about the war, and am not denying that the whole sordid affair has been humiliating and destructive.

However- this does not mean that we should be required to treat their religion with kid gloves, offering it more respect than we routinely offer all other religions. As far as respecting people in their own land and following their customs, Muslims routinely call for death to people all over the world- non-Muslims- for doing anything that offends their religious sensibility- regardless of where the "offense" happened! This behavior crosses all borders- so even though it IS rude to desecrate their holy books on their turf, their religious feelings are fair game.

Muslims use threats and violence to cow people worldwide into behaving in a way that they find acceptable to their religion. I don't care WHAT religion it is- it's wrong, and by giving in to their demands, and apologizing for actions of OUR people, we show them that they can scare us into submission.

I doubt this soldier was unaware of the Muslim mindset, and would be willing to bet that he WAS aware, and disgusted by what he saw. I've never been in war, so I can't imagine what I might feel for the people that are trying to KILL ME- I don't know if he thought he was being funny, letting off some steam, or just goofing off, but I think that's its pretty minor, especially given the context of war. This is the kind of outrage I would expect for a crime like dragging someone behind a car or beheading them, not damaging a book. Yes, soldiers kill people, its their duty whether you agree with it or not. I just want to point out that had he killed a PERSON, we wouldn't have heard anything about it. But shoot a book- watch out!!!!

One last note- Our disgrace of a president is not secular, and all of his comments are sickeningly stupid or offensive. (His existence is offensive to me) His actions are the reason we are in the mess in Iraq in the first place.

Staceyjw

I say SO WHAT- ITS JUST A BOOK!!! Funny, no one would have cared if he had shot a PERSON- but because he shot a BOOK they are in an uproar! What type of morality is that? People have less value than a book to those people

Which people? The ones that shoot both people and books, or the ones that complain when a member of an occupation army goes out of his way to desecrate something he was trained to KNOW is held dear to the people around him? Fuck him. He should go home. He's a danger to his fellow soldiers.

Context matters. This wasn't an Iraqi protesting for the separation of church and state in his own country. This was an ugly American adding insult to injury by showing utter contempt for the Iraqi people.

It's like we can't humiliate them enough: locking them into concrete cages, killing them off by the hundreds of thousands, displacing them by the millions and building a monstrous $700million "embassy" to administer over our latest colony right in their midst. Now, we have to desecrate the only thing they have left, their religion.

And what's so wrong with what they did? Was the soldier injured? Did the tribal leaders demand his head? No, the people chanted and the leaders asked for an apology. Nothing they say or do is going to get us out of their country, but how about if we at least show some minimum level of respect in their own home?

Funny how media works. If kissing a Koran bothers you, what do you think of the president of the secular United States referring to the Israelis as the "chosen people" in a speech he gave in Israel a few days ago. He then says a Jewish blessing and tells them the US will always be by their side. Shouldn't that offend us much more?

Back on topic-
Speaking of religious NUTS- This is an example of WIDESPREAD insanity-
Did you hear about the US Soldier that used a Koran as target practice in Iraq? The Iraqi Muslims freaked out (of course they did) and the head of our forces in Iraq apologized and gave them a Koran- he even kissed it which disgusted me, sorry to say. Naturally, the Muslims are not happy enough with a mere apology and the soldiers reassignment (back to the US) and are calling for maximum punishment. They would rip him from limb to limb if they could get their hands on him. All for "desecrating" their "holy" book.
I bet that soldier was happy at the outcome- he got to go home!!! Good for him!

I say SO WHAT- ITS JUST A BOOK!!! Funny, no one would have cared if he had shot a PERSON- but because he shot a BOOK they are in an uproar! What type of morality is that? People have less value than a book to those people.

This makes me want to get a bunch of mini korans- and bibles etc just for fairness- and shoot BIG holes through them, and put them on a necklace to wear. Maybe I could find more creative ways to "desecrate" them, but I would love to see these on keychains and necklaces.

I am SO TIRED of muslim NUT CASES freaking out because someone offended their religion. Its like their god is so weak and small he requires protection. I know its immature to shoot a religious book and wear it, but I do not care. People need to be offended sometimes- esp. when they are SO RIDICULOUS.

If this does not qualify for religiously inspired insanity, I do not know whata does!

StaceyJW