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	<title>Comments on: A Cold and Sterile Heaven</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon,  1 Dec 2008 16:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: dain waris</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-37341</link>
		<dc:creator>dain waris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-37341</guid>
		<description>I prefer this version: http://www.upress.pitt.edu/htmlsourcefiles/pdfs/0822955067exr.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer this version: <a href="http://www.upress.pitt.edu/htmlsourcefiles/pdfs/0822955067exr.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.upress.pitt.edu/htmlsourcefiles/pdfs/0822955067exr.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: bestonnet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-37083</link>
		<dc:creator>bestonnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-37083</guid>
		<description>It's possible to find Christian fora that don't censor anyone and actually tolerant disagreement although you'll probably find that they aren't biblical literalists (and thus aren't all that much fun).

I suspect the reason tolerance of disagreement is so much higher when atheists are running things is because atheists tend to have good reasons for their beliefs and so have the confidence to subject them to close scrutiny, something a lot of religious people seem to lack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's possible to find Christian fora that don't censor anyone and actually tolerant disagreement although you'll probably find that they aren't biblical literalists (and thus aren't all that much fun).</p>
<p>I suspect the reason tolerance of disagreement is so much higher when atheists are running things is because atheists tend to have good reasons for their beliefs and so have the confidence to subject them to close scrutiny, something a lot of religious people seem to lack.</p>
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		<title>By: Stryder</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-37072</link>
		<dc:creator>Stryder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-37072</guid>
		<description>I love this forum, and this web site - thanks so much for doing it Ebonmuse!  I recently posted some questions about the afterlife on a Christain website.  I wondered whether they thought Christians would still have free will in heaven and whether they would still be possible for them to sin.  Within hours my post was moved from the approved Christian area to a little outpost reserved for the "lost" to be taught Christianity's "truth".  I was also warned that if my purpose was any other than to learn the truth of Christianity (i.e. if I actually was there to challemge anyone on their beliefs) I would be banned from the site.  I thought it was most interesting that this Christian web site would blatantly squelch honest inquiry while atheist web sites like this one welcome all points of view as long as people aren't rude or profane.  Is it any wonder I feel more comfortable here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this forum, and this web site - thanks so much for doing it Ebonmuse!  I recently posted some questions about the afterlife on a Christain website.  I wondered whether they thought Christians would still have free will in heaven and whether they would still be possible for them to sin.  Within hours my post was moved from the approved Christian area to a little outpost reserved for the "lost" to be taught Christianity's "truth".  I was also warned that if my purpose was any other than to learn the truth of Christianity (i.e. if I actually was there to challemge anyone on their beliefs) I would be banned from the site.  I thought it was most interesting that this Christian web site would blatantly squelch honest inquiry while atheist web sites like this one welcome all points of view as long as people aren't rude or profane.  Is it any wonder I feel more comfortable here?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-36986</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 05:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-36986</guid>
		<description>He Who Invents Himself,

"This sort of reminds me of the theists' quip that under atheism the world / humankind has no ultimate purpose or meaning. To which I ask, 'So what is the ultimate purpose with God?'"

I once brought up a similar question to a Christian I went to college with: he claimed that without a "god" their would be no standard of "good" and thus all values would disappear - and I asked him by what standard would the "goodness" of a "god" be measured.  He claimed that "god" is "good," but I persisted in asking what it was that made his "god" "good."  By the time it was all over, he admitted that "god" would have to consider itself "good" in order to be "good" - essentially admitting that "goodness" is just a matter of fiat.

In short, even if there was something called "god" there still wouldn't be any objective "goodness" or "meaning" as this "god" would have to define its own concepts of these things into existence - thus they would be conceived from its own subjective point of view and no more reliable than any concepts of "goodness" or "meaning" we can make all on our own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He Who Invents Himself,</p>
<p>"This sort of reminds me of the theists' quip that under atheism the world / humankind has no ultimate purpose or meaning. To which I ask, 'So what is the ultimate purpose with God?'"</p>
<p>I once brought up a similar question to a Christian I went to college with: he claimed that without a "god" their would be no standard of "good" and thus all values would disappear - and I asked him by what standard would the "goodness" of a "god" be measured.  He claimed that "god" is "good," but I persisted in asking what it was that made his "god" "good."  By the time it was all over, he admitted that "god" would have to consider itself "good" in order to be "good" - essentially admitting that "goodness" is just a matter of fiat.</p>
<p>In short, even if there was something called "god" there still wouldn't be any objective "goodness" or "meaning" as this "god" would have to define its own concepts of these things into existence - thus they would be conceived from its own subjective point of view and no more reliable than any concepts of "goodness" or "meaning" we can make all on our own.</p>
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		<title>By: Wowbagger</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-36966</link>
		<dc:creator>Wowbagger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 01:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-36966</guid>
		<description>As humans we're constantly seeking change, variety and new experiences. The only way I could conceive of it is if it involved regular memory wiping. No matter how good something is you'd get bored with it after a while - and that includes 72 virgins, now matter how enthusiatic they might be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As humans we're constantly seeking change, variety and new experiences. The only way I could conceive of it is if it involved regular memory wiping. No matter how good something is you'd get bored with it after a while - and that includes 72 virgins, now matter how enthusiatic they might be.</p>
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		<title>By: He Who Invents Himself</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-36843</link>
		<dc:creator>He Who Invents Himself</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-36843</guid>
		<description>This sort of reminds me of the theists' quip that under atheism the world / humankind has no ultimate purpose or meaning. To which I ask, "So what is the ultimate purpose with God?" What does God want? Once all's said and done, there will be absolutely nothing more to do, and therefore no more happiness. 

[From Wikipedia:] "Philosopher Blaise Pascal claimed that without God, people would only be able to create obstacles and overcome them in an attempt to escape boredom. These token victories would ultimately become meaningless, since people would eventually die, and this was good enough reason not to become an atheist." I see exactly the same "problem" of ultimate boredom under theism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sort of reminds me of the theists' quip that under atheism the world / humankind has no ultimate purpose or meaning. To which I ask, "So what is the ultimate purpose with God?" What does God want? Once all's said and done, there will be absolutely nothing more to do, and therefore no more happiness. </p>
<p>[From Wikipedia:] "Philosopher Blaise Pascal claimed that without God, people would only be able to create obstacles and overcome them in an attempt to escape boredom. These token victories would ultimately become meaningless, since people would eventually die, and this was good enough reason not to become an atheist." I see exactly the same "problem" of ultimate boredom under theism.</p>
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		<title>By: EKM</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-36842</link>
		<dc:creator>EKM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-36842</guid>
		<description>On June 27, 2008, 7:07 pm, Tommykey said:  
&lt;blockquote&gt;I could go on and on, but I think I have made it clear. These people don't really believe in freedom and liberty, they believe in servitude and their master has all the trappings of a Stalinist dictator or a plantation slave owner.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When I was in school, another student said she would have been willing to vote Reagan Dictator For Life. And I think she was serious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On June 27, 2008, 7:07 pm, Tommykey said:  </p>
<blockquote><p>I could go on and on, but I think I have made it clear. These people don't really believe in freedom and liberty, they believe in servitude and their master has all the trappings of a Stalinist dictator or a plantation slave owner.</p></blockquote>
<p>When I was in school, another student said she would have been willing to vote Reagan Dictator For Life. And I think she was serious.</p>
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		<title>By: yunshui</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-36813</link>
		<dc:creator>yunshui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-36813</guid>
		<description>Having checked out a couple of Slacktivist's critiques - yes indeed, that does look cringe-inducingly awful. My wallet will remain in my pocket. Thanks for the advice, gents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having checked out a couple of Slacktivist's critiques - yes indeed, that does look cringe-inducingly awful. My wallet will remain in my pocket. Thanks for the advice, gents.</p>
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		<title>By: nfpendleton</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-36803</link>
		<dc:creator>nfpendleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-36803</guid>
		<description>At the Slacktivist blog, he calls them "The Worst Books Ever Written."  And he's pretty much right on.  I read the first half of Book 1 and it read like a poorly conceived first draft.  

I know Ebon has a link to Slacktivist on the sight somewhere.  If you're curious, he's doing a "Left Behind Friday" series where he shreds--I mean, critiques--the book almost page by page.  Worth checking out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the Slacktivist blog, he calls them "The Worst Books Ever Written."  And he's pretty much right on.  I read the first half of Book 1 and it read like a poorly conceived first draft.  </p>
<p>I know Ebon has a link to Slacktivist on the sight somewhere.  If you're curious, he's doing a "Left Behind Friday" series where he shreds--I mean, critiques--the book almost page by page.  Worth checking out.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/a-cold-and-sterile-heaven.html#comment-36799</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=767#comment-36799</guid>
		<description>Yunshui,

I read the first two parts of the series ("Left Behind" and "Tribulation Force") and I can tell you that there's nothing in there worth reading: just 2-D characters, a predictible "plot" and a complete lack of imagination - avoid these books like the plague.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yunshui,</p>
<p>I read the first two parts of the series ("Left Behind" and "Tribulation Force") and I can tell you that there's nothing in there worth reading: just 2-D characters, a predictible "plot" and a complete lack of imagination - avoid these books like the plague.</p>
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