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	<title>Comments on: On Transhumanism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon,  1 Dec 2008 17:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: DamienSansBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36617</link>
		<dc:creator>DamienSansBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36617</guid>
		<description>Returning to topic...

&lt;cite&gt;In some surprisingly significant ways, you could say that trans-humanism began in the coffee shops during the Renaissance.&lt;/cite&gt;

Thank you, bbk!  I'll have to write that down for quoting at people later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Returning to topic...</p>
<p><cite>In some surprisingly significant ways, you could say that trans-humanism began in the coffee shops during the Renaissance.</cite></p>
<p>Thank you, bbk!  I'll have to write that down for quoting at people later.</p>
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		<title>By: bestonnet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36553</link>
		<dc:creator>bestonnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 02:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36553</guid>
		<description>Ennis:&lt;blockquote&gt;Correct, curiosity looks for an answer but faith presupposes what it will be.&lt;/blockquote&gt;If you presuppose what the answer will be then you are taking actually looking for one.

To really look for answer you have to be willing to accept whatever that answer is, regardless of what you want or thought the answer probably would be before you investigate.

The only area where it might be possible to claim that I have faith would be in the assumption that there is a real world (i.e. that I'm not just imagining everything).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ennis:<br />
<blockquote>Correct, curiosity looks for an answer but faith presupposes what it will be.</p></blockquote>
<p>If you presuppose what the answer will be then you are taking actually looking for one.</p>
<p>To really look for answer you have to be willing to accept whatever that answer is, regardless of what you want or thought the answer probably would be before you investigate.</p>
<p>The only area where it might be possible to claim that I have faith would be in the assumption that there is a real world (i.e. that I'm not just imagining everything).</p>
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		<title>By: OMGF</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36551</link>
		<dc:creator>OMGF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36551</guid>
		<description>Ennis,
You are making an assumption that I am presupposing something, and therefore I have faith.  This is simply not true.  If I am presupposing something, then perhaps you should point it out to me.  Your answer - if I may venture a guess - will either be that I am presupposing that there is no god, or I am presupposing that matter is all there is.  Did I get it right?

Let me disabuse you of the notion that either of those are faith, because they simply are not.  In the first example, I am not expressing faith in there being no god, but simply acknowledging that you (the theist) have not met your burden of proof in order for me to accept that a god exists.  This does not require faith because I am not presupposing anything, I am simply saying that you have not shown why your presuppositions should be held by me.  In the second example, it's really just a re-phrasing of the first, so the answer to the first should be sufficient.  I would also add that the only evidence we have is that matter does exist and has always existed, so it's rational (not presuppositional) to accept that evidence and think that it may indeed be true (not that it definitely is true).  Once again, however, this is not faith, but acceptance of evidence and rejection of unevidenced claims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ennis,<br />
You are making an assumption that I am presupposing something, and therefore I have faith.  This is simply not true.  If I am presupposing something, then perhaps you should point it out to me.  Your answer - if I may venture a guess - will either be that I am presupposing that there is no god, or I am presupposing that matter is all there is.  Did I get it right?</p>
<p>Let me disabuse you of the notion that either of those are faith, because they simply are not.  In the first example, I am not expressing faith in there being no god, but simply acknowledging that you (the theist) have not met your burden of proof in order for me to accept that a god exists.  This does not require faith because I am not presupposing anything, I am simply saying that you have not shown why your presuppositions should be held by me.  In the second example, it's really just a re-phrasing of the first, so the answer to the first should be sufficient.  I would also add that the only evidence we have is that matter does exist and has always existed, so it's rational (not presuppositional) to accept that evidence and think that it may indeed be true (not that it definitely is true).  Once again, however, this is not faith, but acceptance of evidence and rejection of unevidenced claims.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrnaglfar</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36548</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrnaglfar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36548</guid>
		<description>Ennis, 

 &lt;blockquote&gt;Correct, curiosity looks for an answer but faith presupposes what it will be.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Faith is believing the answer before you know it or can know it. What about imagination or logic from past trends? Those two can certainly drive the search for what could be without believing that it's definitely that way. I can imagine up a story without believing it's actually true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ennis, </p>
<blockquote><p>Correct, curiosity looks for an answer but faith presupposes what it will be.</p></blockquote>
<p>Faith is believing the answer before you know it or can know it. What about imagination or logic from past trends? Those two can certainly drive the search for what could be without believing that it's definitely that way. I can imagine up a story without believing it's actually true.</p>
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		<title>By: Ennis</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36545</link>
		<dc:creator>Ennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36545</guid>
		<description>OMGF:
&lt;blockquote cite=""&gt; it's not faith that drives me to find an answer, but curiosity.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Correct, curiosity looks for an answer but faith presupposes what it will be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMGF:</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p> it's not faith that drives me to find an answer, but curiosity.</p></blockquote>
<p>Correct, curiosity looks for an answer but faith presupposes what it will be.</p>
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		<title>By: OMGF</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36529</link>
		<dc:creator>OMGF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36529</guid>
		<description>Ennis,
&lt;blockquote&gt;You do have good reasons for "believing" as you do but that still involves an element of faith until it is proven absolutely.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That is simply not so.  Rejecting the belief in god due to a lack of evidence doesn't constitute a positive assertion of belief on my part, hence there is no faith behind it.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Do you admit to any gaps in your theories that haven't been filled? If so it is faith that drives you to find the answer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I admit that there are lots of gaps in our knowledge of the universe, but that doesn't mean that my disbelief in your god is faith-based.  And, no, it's not faith that drives me to find an answer, but curiosity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ennis,</p>
<blockquote><p>You do have good reasons for "believing" as you do but that still involves an element of faith until it is proven absolutely.</p></blockquote>
<p>That is simply not so.  Rejecting the belief in god due to a lack of evidence doesn't constitute a positive assertion of belief on my part, hence there is no faith behind it.</p>
<blockquote><p>Do you admit to any gaps in your theories that haven't been filled? If so it is faith that drives you to find the answer.</p></blockquote>
<p>I admit that there are lots of gaps in our knowledge of the universe, but that doesn't mean that my disbelief in your god is faith-based.  And, no, it's not faith that drives me to find an answer, but curiosity.</p>
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		<title>By: bestonnet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36527</link>
		<dc:creator>bestonnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36527</guid>
		<description>Ennis:&lt;blockquote&gt;You do have good reasons for "believing" as you do but that still involves an element of faith until it is proven absolutely.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Nothing is ever proven absolutely (though in some cases we've come close enough).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ennis:<br />
<blockquote>You do have good reasons for "believing" as you do but that still involves an element of faith until it is proven absolutely.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nothing is ever proven absolutely (though in some cases we've come close enough).</p>
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		<title>By: Ennis</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36526</link>
		<dc:creator>Ennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36526</guid>
		<description>bestonnet:
&lt;blockquote cite=""&gt; nor would I want faith since I'd rather have good reasons for believing as I do.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

You do have good reasons for "believing" as you do but that still involves an element of faith until it is proven absolutely.  Do you admit to any gaps in your theories that haven't been filled?  If so it is faith that drives you to find the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bestonnet:</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p> nor would I want faith since I'd rather have good reasons for believing as I do.</p></blockquote>
<p>You do have good reasons for "believing" as you do but that still involves an element of faith until it is proven absolutely.  Do you admit to any gaps in your theories that haven't been filled?  If so it is faith that drives you to find the answer.</p>
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		<title>By: bestonnet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36476</link>
		<dc:creator>bestonnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36476</guid>
		<description>Ennis:&lt;blockquote&gt;Which religion were you hoping to remove?&lt;/blockquote&gt;I'd like to see them all go.

Ennis:&lt;blockquote&gt;There seems to be a lot of faith being expressed on this blog. Speculating about the unknown is sort of a religious thing, heh?&lt;/blockquote&gt;I don't think of it as religious at all nor would I want faith since I'd rather have good reasons for believing as I do.

Ennis:&lt;blockquote&gt;I for one think freedom of thought is healthy but if all religion is removed are we then disallowed this liberty? Would that be ethical?&lt;/blockquote&gt;You can believe whatever you want, that is a freedom that we must have but that doesn't mean I can't want religion gone (just that I won't force the issue too much).

If religion disappears because people realise that it was a bad first attempt and that they can get what religion offered through other means then that would be ethical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ennis:<br />
<blockquote>Which religion were you hoping to remove?</p></blockquote>
<p>I'd like to see them all go.</p>
<p>Ennis:<br />
<blockquote>There seems to be a lot of faith being expressed on this blog. Speculating about the unknown is sort of a religious thing, heh?</p></blockquote>
<p>I don't think of it as religious at all nor would I want faith since I'd rather have good reasons for believing as I do.</p>
<p>Ennis:<br />
<blockquote>I for one think freedom of thought is healthy but if all religion is removed are we then disallowed this liberty? Would that be ethical?</p></blockquote>
<p>You can believe whatever you want, that is a freedom that we must have but that doesn't mean I can't want religion gone (just that I won't force the issue too much).</p>
<p>If religion disappears because people realise that it was a bad first attempt and that they can get what religion offered through other means then that would be ethical.</p>
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		<title>By: Ennis</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/06/on-transhumanism.html#comment-36471</link>
		<dc:creator>Ennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=657#comment-36471</guid>
		<description>Hey bestonnet,
Which religion were you hoping to remove?  There seems to be a lot of faith being expressed on this blog.  Speculating about the unknown is sort of a religious thing, heh? I for one think freedom of thought is healthy but if all religion is removed are we then disallowed this liberty?  Would that be ethical?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey bestonnet,<br />
Which religion were you hoping to remove?  There seems to be a lot of faith being expressed on this blog.  Speculating about the unknown is sort of a religious thing, heh? I for one think freedom of thought is healthy but if all religion is removed are we then disallowed this liberty?  Would that be ethical?</p>
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