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	<title>Comments on: Smoke on the Breeze</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37087</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 06:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37087</guid>
		<description>Alex, I have some relatives in that teach spec. ed - and they firmly believe that the various mental illnesses that their students have are directly connected with vaccines as well.  I honestly don&#039;t know how much of their suspicions are real or imagined, but I strongly doubt their opinions are based in fact: after all, they also believe that large Satanic cults have conjured demons onto the mortal plane and control our government (yeah, they&#039;ve read too much Rebecca Brown liturature).

So I take any claims they make without any basis in fact with a grain of salt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, I have some relatives in that teach spec. ed - and they firmly believe that the various mental illnesses that their students have are directly connected with vaccines as well.  I honestly don't know how much of their suspicions are real or imagined, but I strongly doubt their opinions are based in fact: after all, they also believe that large Satanic cults have conjured demons onto the mortal plane and control our government (yeah, they've read too much Rebecca Brown liturature).</p>
<p>So I take any claims they make without any basis in fact with a grain of salt.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37086</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 05:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37086</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And lets not forget the urban legends - tales of old ladies putting cats in microwaves, female fashion models being literally cooked by tanning beds and girlfriends that shoot their boyfriends&#039; computers for attention! This modern culture has just as many ridiculous tales to tell as those of the ancients - and many people are gullible enough to believe them too...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not to mention &quot;vaccines-causing-autism&quot; myths.  My grandparents in Soquel (yes, Adam, the same set I mentioned a couple years back in connection with 9/11 conspiracy theories) occasionally forward me articles about that, and I reply with links to Respectful Insolence.  While they claim not to believe in it wholeheartedly, they don&#039;t seem to be moving away from that position; they seem to be intensely predisposed to crediting any account which paints the industrial sector or mainstream political institutions as villains, whether the facts support it or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And lets not forget the urban legends - tales of old ladies putting cats in microwaves, female fashion models being literally cooked by tanning beds and girlfriends that shoot their boyfriends' computers for attention! This modern culture has just as many ridiculous tales to tell as those of the ancients - and many people are gullible enough to believe them too...</p></blockquote>
<p>Not to mention "vaccines-causing-autism" myths.  My grandparents in Soquel (yes, Adam, the same set I mentioned a couple years back in connection with 9/11 conspiracy theories) occasionally forward me articles about that, and I reply with links to Respectful Insolence.  While they claim not to believe in it wholeheartedly, they don't seem to be moving away from that position; they seem to be intensely predisposed to crediting any account which paints the industrial sector or mainstream political institutions as villains, whether the facts support it or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37082</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 00:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37082</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That desire for understanding, for control, has been distilled and expressed in a pure form: the scientific method. Now, for the first time in history, we have real answers, not just guesses, for the fundamental questions of existence. The codified dogmas of the past, the ones that touch on those same questions, are stale and outdated. We no longer need those fragile trappings of myth when we have genuine understanding to light the way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ah, but so often when we are inspired by science, we are inspired by some &lt;i&gt;story&lt;/i&gt; -- a story containing scientific truths, to be sure, but one which rings with myth and metaphor nonetheless.  We are stardust; we are the universe beginning to comprehend itself; we are a small note concluding the &#039;Ancestor&#039;s Tale&#039; and a lead in to some descendant&#039;s tale to come.  We haven&#039;t outlived the need for story, and it isn&#039;t the facts themselves that provide the story, it&#039;s the way we choose to view them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That desire for understanding, for control, has been distilled and expressed in a pure form: the scientific method. Now, for the first time in history, we have real answers, not just guesses, for the fundamental questions of existence. The codified dogmas of the past, the ones that touch on those same questions, are stale and outdated. We no longer need those fragile trappings of myth when we have genuine understanding to light the way.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah, but so often when we are inspired by science, we are inspired by some <i>story</i> -- a story containing scientific truths, to be sure, but one which rings with myth and metaphor nonetheless.  We are stardust; we are the universe beginning to comprehend itself; we are a small note concluding the 'Ancestor's Tale' and a lead in to some descendant's tale to come.  We haven't outlived the need for story, and it isn't the facts themselves that provide the story, it's the way we choose to view them.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37081</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 00:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37081</guid>
		<description>Malenfant,

&quot;Let&#039;s not forget that the Techno-Age brings it&#039;s own Myths and irrationalities, 2012 and McKennas &#039;Timewave Zero&#039; are examples for that.&quot;

And lets not forget the urban legends - tales of old ladies putting cats in microwaves, female fashion models being literally cooked by tanning beds and girlfriends that shoot their boyfriends&#039; computers for attention!  This modern culture has just as many ridiculous tales to tell as those of the ancients - and many people are gullible enough to believe them too...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malenfant,</p>
<p>"Let's not forget that the Techno-Age brings it's own Myths and irrationalities, 2012 and McKennas 'Timewave Zero' are examples for that."</p>
<p>And lets not forget the urban legends - tales of old ladies putting cats in microwaves, female fashion models being literally cooked by tanning beds and girlfriends that shoot their boyfriends' computers for attention!  This modern culture has just as many ridiculous tales to tell as those of the ancients - and many people are gullible enough to believe them too...</p>
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		<title>By: the chaplain</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37080</link>
		<dc:creator>the chaplain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37080</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;religious beliefs have outlived their usefulness&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree completely, which is why I have difficulty with the ideal you expressed in your closing paragraph. Religious people often have difficulty extracting the meaningful portions out of their stories and leaving the tall tales behind. Even liberal believers, who do this more effectively than conservatives and fundamentalists, frequently retain some of the woo and mysticism that comes with their religious traditions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>religious beliefs have outlived their usefulness</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree completely, which is why I have difficulty with the ideal you expressed in your closing paragraph. Religious people often have difficulty extracting the meaningful portions out of their stories and leaving the tall tales behind. Even liberal believers, who do this more effectively than conservatives and fundamentalists, frequently retain some of the woo and mysticism that comes with their religious traditions.</p>
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		<title>By: Malenfant</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37079</link>
		<dc:creator>Malenfant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37079</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s not forget that the Techno-Age brings it&#039;s own Myths and irrationalities, 2012 and McKennas &#039;Timewave Zero&#039; are examples for that, similarly to the aforementioned Singularity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let's not forget that the Techno-Age brings it's own Myths and irrationalities, 2012 and McKennas 'Timewave Zero' are examples for that, similarly to the aforementioned Singularity.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37078</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37078</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Lirone! I couldn&#039;t agree more. Myths, by their nature, are reflections of the natural cycles: life and death, the seasons, the rhythms of nature. Those things change slowly, if at all, while the pace of change in our society constantly accelerates. We travel into space, build skyscrapers, and reshape the face of the planet, and we&#039;re still relying - as Sam Harris puts it - on the myths accumulated by societies so ancient and primitive that for them the wheelbarrow would have been a major technological advance. Sure, we can study those stories, and admire them for the power they have to stir our emotions, because storytelling is a truly universal trait shared by people of all eras. But to take them as infallible guides for living &lt;i&gt;our&lt;/i&gt; lives today? The idea still amazes me. How can you play with sandcastles on the beach when there&#039;s an ocean to explore?

Alex: I&#039;ve never heard of Nightwish, but I do like Blind Guardian and Symphony X as well (and bearing that in mind, I&#039;ll have to check them out). Along those lines I might also recommend Kamelot and Sonata Arctica - both are great, complex progressive rock bands that also weave in classical instrumental themes. Very good music to get in the mood for writing. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Lirone! I couldn't agree more. Myths, by their nature, are reflections of the natural cycles: life and death, the seasons, the rhythms of nature. Those things change slowly, if at all, while the pace of change in our society constantly accelerates. We travel into space, build skyscrapers, and reshape the face of the planet, and we're still relying - as Sam Harris puts it - on the myths accumulated by societies so ancient and primitive that for them the wheelbarrow would have been a major technological advance. Sure, we can study those stories, and admire them for the power they have to stir our emotions, because storytelling is a truly universal trait shared by people of all eras. But to take them as infallible guides for living <i>our</i> lives today? The idea still amazes me. How can you play with sandcastles on the beach when there's an ocean to explore?</p>
<p>Alex: I've never heard of Nightwish, but I do like Blind Guardian and Symphony X as well (and bearing that in mind, I'll have to check them out). Along those lines I might also recommend Kamelot and Sonata Arctica - both are great, complex progressive rock bands that also weave in classical instrumental themes. Very good music to get in the mood for writing. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37077</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37077</guid>
		<description>Alex,

&quot;Will someone fix that record player?&quot;

I don&#039;t see any context for this statement to fit into - would you care to fill us in on you attempted to communicate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex,</p>
<p>"Will someone fix that record player?"</p>
<p>I don't see any context for this statement to fit into - would you care to fill us in on you attempted to communicate?</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37076</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37076</guid>
		<description>(Actually, I should qualify that.  Nightwish is very powerful and evocative musically, but I somewhat doubt there&#039;s anyone on earth who listens to it for the lyrics).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Actually, I should qualify that.  Nightwish is very powerful and evocative musically, but I somewhat doubt there's anyone on earth who listens to it for the lyrics).</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Weaver</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37075</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37075</guid>
		<description>Will someone please fix that record player?

Anyway, Adam, I find similar inspiration in some more modern music which habitually deals with Christian themes (Nightwish, Blind Guardian, and Symphony X come to mind).  Any experience with any of these?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will someone please fix that record player?</p>
<p>Anyway, Adam, I find similar inspiration in some more modern music which habitually deals with Christian themes (Nightwish, Blind Guardian, and Symphony X come to mind).  Any experience with any of these?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37074</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37074</guid>
		<description>I can see why one&#039;s emotions can be moved through mythological tales - in fact, one of my favorite myths is that of Ragnarok (or &quot;Twighlight of the gods&quot;): I love the manner in which it displays the efforts of those considered high and lofty by mortals far and wide as ultimately being fruitless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see why one's emotions can be moved through mythological tales - in fact, one of my favorite myths is that of Ragnarok (or "Twighlight of the gods"): I love the manner in which it displays the efforts of those considered high and lofty by mortals far and wide as ultimately being fruitless.</p>
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		<title>By: Lirone</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/07/smoke-on-the-breeze.html#comment-37073</link>
		<dc:creator>Lirone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=774#comment-37073</guid>
		<description>It strikes me that the problem is that our knowledge is expanding, and our societies changing, faster than our myths are changing. Myths seem to build up slowly, take time to become established. So they&#039;re powerful, but almost inevitably out of date. Maybe in a few centuries we will have myths that reflect our 21st century knowledge about the world... which of course will by then be out of date themselves!

It&#039;s not just religious myths - I&#039;ve recently been&lt;a href=&quot;http://wordsthatsing.wordpress.com/2008/07/10/myths/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; reflecting&lt;/a&gt; on the myths and fairy stories about women that are now so out of date and irrelevant for the lives of modern western women. 

But myths are nevertheless hugely powerful. I&#039;m absolutely with you on Verdi&#039;s requiem which has an amazing ability to dramatise the story of death and judgement. And there&#039;s a moment in Bach&#039;s B minor mass, describing the crucifixion, which gives an incredibly uncomfortable feeling that something is terribly, fundamentally wrong. It&#039;s all in the harmony... but it brings out the emotions incredibly powerfully!

 As a singer performing these works, my responsibility is to convey these emotions and tell this story at full intensity. But as an atheist I do feel slightly uncomfortable when I know that some people in the audience are taking this literally, and believe that I do too! Of course in operas and plays people suspend their disbelief in order to enjoy the story... unfortunately not everyone does that with these religious works!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It strikes me that the problem is that our knowledge is expanding, and our societies changing, faster than our myths are changing. Myths seem to build up slowly, take time to become established. So they're powerful, but almost inevitably out of date. Maybe in a few centuries we will have myths that reflect our 21st century knowledge about the world... which of course will by then be out of date themselves!</p>
<p>It's not just religious myths - I've recently been<a href="http://wordsthatsing.wordpress.com/2008/07/10/myths/" rel="nofollow"> reflecting</a> on the myths and fairy stories about women that are now so out of date and irrelevant for the lives of modern western women. </p>
<p>But myths are nevertheless hugely powerful. I'm absolutely with you on Verdi's requiem which has an amazing ability to dramatise the story of death and judgement. And there's a moment in Bach's B minor mass, describing the crucifixion, which gives an incredibly uncomfortable feeling that something is terribly, fundamentally wrong. It's all in the harmony... but it brings out the emotions incredibly powerfully!</p>
<p> As a singer performing these works, my responsibility is to convey these emotions and tell this story at full intensity. But as an atheist I do feel slightly uncomfortable when I know that some people in the audience are taking this literally, and believe that I do too! Of course in operas and plays people suspend their disbelief in order to enjoy the story... unfortunately not everyone does that with these religious works!</p>
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