I can't see how either the student or PZ could possibly be construed as immoral. Eating a burger with a Hindu or showing your hair with a Muslim are not immoral, neither is tossing away a cracker. Could these things be considered rude or in poor taste? To some, in some situations, possibly, but Immoral? No way. And what a way to show your moral superiority- THREATENING People that disagree with death? Wow, that makes me respect you so much more- HA

What good is a college where you have to protect and respect everyones religion/ beliefs/ gender/ race to the point where all discussion is quashed? Why are people SO afraid of being offended? I didn't know hurt feelings were such a problem that there needed to be rules to prevent it. "Sticks and Stones may break my bones but words will hurt MY FEEBILE FEELINGS FOREVER"

What a worthless college- Watch out-IDEAS might cause some kind of upset leading to THINKING, and we can't have that on campus- ISN'T THAT WHAT COLLEGES ARE SUPPOSE TO BE FOR????? To Provoke, Question, Argue??? College use to be the place to try out your ideas and opinions, this one has decided to become weak and whiny. I mean really- A DEVOUT FOLLOWER MADE A MINOR BOO_BOO and you all jump on him like he is a priest that molested 50+ kids- OH YEAH, you didn't JUMP ON THE molestor, JUST THE student WITH HIS "ILLEGAL" WAFER! I guess I should have used "Atheist with a wafer" in place of pervert priests, to illustrate their priorities.

I am just about tired of the Catholic church- if they weren't so comical I would be irate. Come on Catholics, CLEAN UP your OWN disrespectful, perverse, misogynistic congregation before you come and attack others for minor things. YOU have NO moral authority- NONE- you don't stand up against Death threats or Child Rape, but I guess that is your standard protocol, since you not only didn't defend, but actively helped the Nazi's and several Latin American Dictators with their genocide schemes. And yes, its a rant, but after reading all this batshit, I feel its necessary.

I bet that student, who was genuine in his Catholic faith and trying to do nothing wrong, will become disillusioned with the treatment he received at the hands of his "brothers". If he doesn't he is a fool too.

I think I will go out and be rude and disrespectful now, maybe take some naked pics by an alter- and YES I am trying to ANNOY and ANGER people! Somoetimes they need it, I know I do ;) But I can take a joke!

LONG LIVE PZ

Stacey

If memory serves, Stop The Church was an action done by members of ACT UP/New York, though I can't recall whether they did it under the organization's name or not. I was taking issue with Dr. Patterson claiming it was ACT UP/San Francisco, which was only loosely affiliated with ACT UP/NY. That and the fact that he was claiming they performed lewd acts on the altar, which I think only happened in his fantasies.

Like I said before, many of us from the other ACT UP chapters around the country supported the action. I'm just trying to get the historical record correct here.

Of what I read on the web, the "Stop the Church" incident was indeed at least related, if not actually held by, ACT-UP.

Another possibility is that this was all confused with the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. They're a riot!

Dr. PH Myers, of "pharyngula" sums it up in his latest letters to UCF. (paraphrased) If something is not illegal, It is defensible.

This sounds like the antithesis of the Dr. Myers' philosophy, "Nothing must be held sacred." Care to link to this little gem, Doctor?

He has admitted that Cook's actions were calculated to inflame and were "very insensitive".

WTF?!? Do you realize how stupid that statement is? I mean, this is a whole new level of stupid, beyond even, I think, troll stupid. How would Dr. Myers know Cook's intentions? How does his admission carry any weight regarding the thoughts of Cook?

According to witnesses, Senator Cook and his friend had had quite a few beers and decided to razz the communion mass.

Which witnesses? Nutbar Catholic fundie witnesses? No? Please present these witnesses so their story can be examined and thier objectivity determined.
I've been around here quite a bit and I know that you will never convince anyone around here of anything if you don't present some evidence.

You wish, Dr. Patterson. I was a member of ACT UP San Francisco for many years, back in the late 80s and early 90s (since then, sadly, it has been hijacked by AIDS denialists). According to our mission statement, we were "a nonviolent grassroots group engaged in direct action to bring about an end to the AIDS epidemic."

We got arrested a lot for civil disobedience, but never for "lewd acts," and we never demonstrated inside a church. You are probably confusing us with the "Stop the Church" action in New York City in 1989, in which AIDS activists did indeed disrupt a Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral to protest the church's deadly prohibition on condoms. No lewd acts occurred, but there was -- you guessed it -- a host desecration!

I was not involved in "Stop the Church," but I strongly supported it. Remember, this was long before there were any effective treatments for HIV, and my friends were dying all around me. I found it sickening that this hugely powerful church could tell people they deserved to die, that condoms were a sin, and claim that those beliefs was "sacred," and therefore beyond reproach.

Those of us who approved of the action felt that the lives of people with AIDS were what was really sacred, and we refused to let the church hide behind its dogma. We stood up and called them the murderers that they were. If a cracker got broken in the process, we were a lot less worried about that than about real people suffering and dying.

I love how these events get distorted in the fantasies of homophobes, though. Projection much?

From what I can tell, Cook is being impeached specifically for representing the Senate (allegedly ...) at the service where he took the eucharist wafer. Merely offending religious dogma on one's own time shouldn't deserve punishment from "ethics rules," I would think. Also, Cook said that he did not realize he was required to swallow the wafer right away and merely wanted to show it to a friend. I think this would likely be a lie, because anybody raised Roman Catholic would very very likely know not to do anything but consume the wafer at mass. (But what's a boy to tell reporters?) - Although I won't discard the possibility that he actually didn't know.

In other news, I'm seeing some interesting Catholic comments on this elsewhere. Says lomenta on Meyers:

That is sad. I think God looks upon this person as an angry child lashing out at his unhappy relationship with God. As any good father would do, no doubt, He loves him all the more deeply. -Lo

This is a total misunderstanding of Meyers. Also see here for more gems. They believe Meyers to be a cowardly, Satanic, narcissistic, spiteful child. ("Pretty twisted SOB") Nailing the host is a hate crime much like "defacing a synagogue," and is comparable to stealing a treasured portrait from a family home and defacing it. Desecration is assumed to be a direct act of disrespect to all Catholics themselves.

I think Meyers' intentions and message in this act are totally misunderstood by Catholics:

Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanity's knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind.

And thanks, but we don't need your concern-troll advice about how to win the PR war. We know perfectly well how to do that, and given that your sympathies are obviously not with our side, we'd be foolish to believe that any advice you give was genuinely intended to help us out.