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	<title>Comments on: No Religious Exemptions from Discrimination Laws</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-48792</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-48792</guid>
		<description>Juan Felipe I think your absolutely right that the whole not providing artificial insemination to un-married people is just an excuse to hide her homophobic stance.  I seriously doubt that she asks to see the marriage certificate of her clients.  Besides who is she to decide that single people and unmarried couples are not allowed to have children.

All those calling for individual religious exemptions for things like this or for pharmacist who refuse to fill prescriptions for birth control need to get a clue.  You do not have a right to impose your religion on someone else or use your religion as an excuse for violating the law and not do your job.  If your religious views prohibit you from doing your job than you picked the wrong career path.  As one of the commentators said - &quot;If your religious beliefs would interfere with your ability to perform the duties of a job, then you are free to seek a different job. You are not free to take the job and refuse to do it while whining about religious persecution.&quot;  If a vegetarian took a job as a waitress at a steak house and refused to serve meat or any meat product she would be fired and no one would even think for one second that she had the right to refuse to do her job because of her beliefs.  The same would be true for a pacifist who enlisted in the military and the said he or she would have no part in killing people or attacking anything whether it be as a soldier, mechanic, or analyst.  The same is true with religion you are entitled to your religious beliefs just as your entitled to be a vegetarian or pacifist but you cannot use those beliefs to discriminate or refuse to do your job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Juan Felipe I think your absolutely right that the whole not providing artificial insemination to un-married people is just an excuse to hide her homophobic stance.  I seriously doubt that she asks to see the marriage certificate of her clients.  Besides who is she to decide that single people and unmarried couples are not allowed to have children.</p>
<p>All those calling for individual religious exemptions for things like this or for pharmacist who refuse to fill prescriptions for birth control need to get a clue.  You do not have a right to impose your religion on someone else or use your religion as an excuse for violating the law and not do your job.  If your religious views prohibit you from doing your job than you picked the wrong career path.  As one of the commentators said - "If your religious beliefs would interfere with your ability to perform the duties of a job, then you are free to seek a different job. You are not free to take the job and refuse to do it while whining about religious persecution."  If a vegetarian took a job as a waitress at a steak house and refused to serve meat or any meat product she would be fired and no one would even think for one second that she had the right to refuse to do her job because of her beliefs.  The same would be true for a pacifist who enlisted in the military and the said he or she would have no part in killing people or attacking anything whether it be as a soldier, mechanic, or analyst.  The same is true with religion you are entitled to your religious beliefs just as your entitled to be a vegetarian or pacifist but you cannot use those beliefs to discriminate or refuse to do your job.</p>
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		<title>By: OMGF</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-38045</link>
		<dc:creator>OMGF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-38045</guid>
		<description>We actually know that some creationists try to get biology degrees in service of Jesus (or Rev. Moon) so that their anti-science opinions will be seen to have more weight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We actually know that some creationists try to get biology degrees in service of Jesus (or Rev. Moon) so that their anti-science opinions will be seen to have more weight.</p>
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		<title>By: bestonnet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-38033</link>
		<dc:creator>bestonnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-38033</guid>
		<description>For medicine you can probably get through it pretty easily without accepting evolution (and in the few classes that would have evolution just giving the answer the lecturer wants would work) although someone with a medical degree would be in a better position to answer that.

People have been known to get biology degrees while being creationalist and some (very few) biologists end up becoming creationalist so it&#039;s not really unexpected that creationalists would slip through the cracks in a medical degree that is more focused on how humans are right now than on how we (and all the other animals, plants, fungi, bacteria, viruses, etc) came to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For medicine you can probably get through it pretty easily without accepting evolution (and in the few classes that would have evolution just giving the answer the lecturer wants would work) although someone with a medical degree would be in a better position to answer that.</p>
<p>People have been known to get biology degrees while being creationalist and some (very few) biologists end up becoming creationalist so it's not really unexpected that creationalists would slip through the cracks in a medical degree that is more focused on how humans are right now than on how we (and all the other animals, plants, fungi, bacteria, viruses, etc) came to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-38030</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-38030</guid>
		<description>How the hell did these people get through med school? dont you have to take biology classes? that usually weeds out the radicals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How the hell did these people get through med school? dont you have to take biology classes? that usually weeds out the radicals.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-37923</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 05:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-37923</guid>
		<description>bestonnet,

&quot;Unequal taxation has also been a big factor and still is today even in &#039;secular&#039; countries with religions getting their undeserved tax exemptions.&quot;

I personally think that other religious institutions should follow the example of the Church of Satan - admit that they&#039;re running a business and pay their damn taxes!  It&#039;s interesting to see how Levey and co. have more integrity than those who are supposed defenders of the &quot;truth...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bestonnet,</p>
<p>"Unequal taxation has also been a big factor and still is today even in 'secular' countries with religions getting their undeserved tax exemptions."</p>
<p>I personally think that other religious institutions should follow the example of the Church of Satan - admit that they're running a business and pay their damn taxes!  It's interesting to see how Levey and co. have more integrity than those who are supposed defenders of the "truth..."</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-37922</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 05:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-37922</guid>
		<description>Juan Felipe,

&quot;Jeez, what the hell is this women doing as a fertility specialist? &quot;She is not married&quot; sounds like a poor excuse for someone whit her work, I would bet she just doesn&#039;t wants to admit that her decision was based on the sexuality orientation of her patient.&quot;

And even if it&#039;s true, who is she to decide unmarried couples can&#039;t have children?  It&#039;s just a piece of paper with way too much value ascribed to it - I personally would like to see that institution of &quot;marraige&quot; die within my lifetime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Juan Felipe,</p>
<p>"Jeez, what the hell is this women doing as a fertility specialist? "She is not married" sounds like a poor excuse for someone whit her work, I would bet she just doesn't wants to admit that her decision was based on the sexuality orientation of her patient."</p>
<p>And even if it's true, who is she to decide unmarried couples can't have children?  It's just a piece of paper with way too much value ascribed to it - I personally would like to see that institution of "marraige" die within my lifetime.</p>
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		<title>By: bestonnet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-37916</link>
		<dc:creator>bestonnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-37916</guid>
		<description>Religious exemptions from compulsory voting laws are actually a good idea so there are some things they should get out of.

A lot of religious conversions have been due to economic motivations with a favoured religion being given its holy days as designated days of rest (instead of having its members forced to choose between work or church) along with often letting those in that religion get out of onerous duties.  Unequal taxation has also been a big factor and still is today even in &#039;secular&#039; countries with religions getting their undeserved tax exemptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Religious exemptions from compulsory voting laws are actually a good idea so there are some things they should get out of.</p>
<p>A lot of religious conversions have been due to economic motivations with a favoured religion being given its holy days as designated days of rest (instead of having its members forced to choose between work or church) along with often letting those in that religion get out of onerous duties.  Unequal taxation has also been a big factor and still is today even in 'secular' countries with religions getting their undeserved tax exemptions.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan Felipe</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-37914</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan Felipe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-37914</guid>
		<description>&quot;Dr. Brody, an obstetrician and gynecologist at the clinic, said she would not perform an intrauterine insemination on Guadalupe, a lesbian who lives with her partner and wanted to become pregnant with donated sperm, stating she would not perform the procedure on any unmarried woman, regardless of sexual orientation.&quot;

Jeez, what the hell is this women doing as a fertility specialist? &quot;She is not married&quot; sounds like a poor excuse for someone whit her work, I would bet she just doesn&#039;t wants to admit that her decision was based on the sexuality orientation of her patient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Dr. Brody, an obstetrician and gynecologist at the clinic, said she would not perform an intrauterine insemination on Guadalupe, a lesbian who lives with her partner and wanted to become pregnant with donated sperm, stating she would not perform the procedure on any unmarried woman, regardless of sexual orientation."</p>
<p>Jeez, what the hell is this women doing as a fertility specialist? "She is not married" sounds like a poor excuse for someone whit her work, I would bet she just doesn't wants to admit that her decision was based on the sexuality orientation of her patient.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-37913</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-37913</guid>
		<description>If anyone&#039;s interested to see the reaction from the non-reality-based side, here it is: &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08081902.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;California Supreme Court Rules Doctors Must Provide Treatment That Violates Their Religious Beliefs&lt;/a&gt;&quot;. An excerpt:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
A press release from the Capitol Resource Institute, a California family policy advocacy group, said, &quot;The California Supreme Court&#039;s decision proves that these activist judges are willing to deny our First Amendment religious freedom in order to create rights for homosexuals.&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If anyone's interested to see the reaction from the non-reality-based side, here it is: "<a href="http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08081902.html" rel="nofollow">California Supreme Court Rules Doctors Must Provide Treatment That Violates Their Religious Beliefs</a>". An excerpt:</p>
<blockquote><p>
A press release from the Capitol Resource Institute, a California family policy advocacy group, said, "The California Supreme Court's decision proves that these activist judges are willing to deny our First Amendment religious freedom in order to create rights for homosexuals."
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Lunacrous</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-37911</link>
		<dc:creator>Lunacrous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-37911</guid>
		<description>A good step in the right direction, toward the ideal of &quot;No Religious Exemptions from Any Laws.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good step in the right direction, toward the ideal of "No Religious Exemptions from Any Laws."</p>
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		<title>By: the chaplain</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-37910</link>
		<dc:creator>the chaplain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-37910</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If your religious beliefs would interfere with your ability to perform the duties of a job, then you are free to seek a different job. You are not free to take the job and refuse to do it while whining about religious persecution.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree completely and cannot, for the life of me, figure out why some people have such a hard time with it. The other side of the coin is that employers can also fire employees who refuse to perform their duties. Of course, many employers probably want to avoid being accused of religious persecution, so they allow employees to impose their wills on the company as well as the clients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If your religious beliefs would interfere with your ability to perform the duties of a job, then you are free to seek a different job. You are not free to take the job and refuse to do it while whining about religious persecution.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree completely and cannot, for the life of me, figure out why some people have such a hard time with it. The other side of the coin is that employers can also fire employees who refuse to perform their duties. Of course, many employers probably want to avoid being accused of religious persecution, so they allow employees to impose their wills on the company as well as the clients.</p>
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		<title>By: Joffan</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/08/religious-discrimination.html#comment-37909</link>
		<dc:creator>Joffan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 18:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=811#comment-37909</guid>
		<description>I assume that the fertility clinic had contracted to provide a range of services, which must have included artificial insemination. Once they agree to deliver that service, they can&#039;t then refuse to provide it based on medically irrelevant characteristics of the patient. Presumably they &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; decline to provide a contracted service that had some prospect of harming the patient.

If artificial insemination was &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; part of a particular clinic&#039;s contract, and the doctors refused that procedure for &lt;b&gt;everyone&lt;/b&gt;, then I would have agreed with the doctors&#039; decision. I do not believe that starting a family is a right in a sufficiently strong sense that medical support for conception is automatic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume that the fertility clinic had contracted to provide a range of services, which must have included artificial insemination. Once they agree to deliver that service, they can't then refuse to provide it based on medically irrelevant characteristics of the patient. Presumably they <i>could</i> decline to provide a contracted service that had some prospect of harming the patient.</p>
<p>If artificial insemination was <b>not</b> part of a particular clinic's contract, and the doctors refused that procedure for <b>everyone</b>, then I would have agreed with the doctors' decision. I do not believe that starting a family is a right in a sufficiently strong sense that medical support for conception is automatic.</p>
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