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	<title>Comments on: The Bubble</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38996</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38996</guid>
		<description>&quot;Total Truth&quot; was actually required reading in my PHYSICAL SCIENCE class at bible college. It&#039;s no exaggeration to say that the first two-thirds of the semester were spent on anti-evolution tirades. I had just de-converted from Christianity a few months prior to taking the class(a fact known only to me at the time), so when we were required to write a paper defending the thesis that Christianity was the greatest single factor in the rise of Europe and the Scientific Revolution, I had a field day. I failed the paper(and dropped the class), but it was the best damn paper I could write.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Total Truth" was actually required reading in my PHYSICAL SCIENCE class at bible college. It's no exaggeration to say that the first two-thirds of the semester were spent on anti-evolution tirades. I had just de-converted from Christianity a few months prior to taking the class(a fact known only to me at the time), so when we were required to write a paper defending the thesis that Christianity was the greatest single factor in the rise of Europe and the Scientific Revolution, I had a field day. I failed the paper(and dropped the class), but it was the best damn paper I could write.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38763</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38763</guid>
		<description>I would agree, most Christians are practically secularists. But the bubble is no less real to them, it is just thinner. You still hear from many formerly casual Christians that deconversion is a hard and difficult process, despite their relative detachment from Christianity&#039;s core.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree, most Christians are practically secularists. But the bubble is no less real to them, it is just thinner. You still hear from many formerly casual Christians that deconversion is a hard and difficult process, despite their relative detachment from Christianity's core.</p>
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		<title>By: bestonnet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38740</link>
		<dc:creator>bestonnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38740</guid>
		<description>A lot of the people counted as Christians probably don&#039;t even think of themselves that way (they just put down the church they went too when they were little when asked about religion).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of the people counted as Christians probably don't even think of themselves that way (they just put down the church they went too when they were little when asked about religion).</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38728</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38728</guid>
		<description>Most Christians are more secular &lt;strike&gt;then&lt;/strike&gt; &lt;b&gt;than&lt;/b&gt; they realize</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most Christians are more secular <strike>then</strike> <b>than</b> they realize</p>
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		<title>By: Mathew Wilder</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38715</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathew Wilder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38715</guid>
		<description>Perhaps we ought to take Mencken&#039;s advice, and stop arguing:

&quot;The liberation of the human mind has never been furthered by such learned dunderheads; it has been furthered by gay fellows who heaved dead cats into sanctuaries and then went roistering down the highways of the world, proving to all men that doubt, after all, was safe — that the god in the sanctuary was finite in his power, and hence a fraud. One horse-laugh is worth ten thousand syllogisms. It is not only more effective; it is also vastly more intelligent.&quot;

&lt;i&gt;Prejudices, Fourth Series&lt;/i&gt; (1924)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps we ought to take Mencken's advice, and stop arguing:</p>
<p>"The liberation of the human mind has never been furthered by such learned dunderheads; it has been furthered by gay fellows who heaved dead cats into sanctuaries and then went roistering down the highways of the world, proving to all men that doubt, after all, was safe — that the god in the sanctuary was finite in his power, and hence a fraud. One horse-laugh is worth ten thousand syllogisms. It is not only more effective; it is also vastly more intelligent."</p>
<p><i>Prejudices, Fourth Series</i> (1924)</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38714</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38714</guid>
		<description>Nice image, Polly. 

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;I know I&#039;m in a bubble when I start rejecting some facts because they conflict with what I&#039;m already presuming.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Loads of apologists love to tell us atheists that &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; has faith, even us. (Obviously, this is true, but that doesn&#039;t give faith any epistemic validity.) We can still be humble and admit this, but at the same time proud of the fact that we&#039;re atheists and have planted our feet outside of what we identify as the wrong bubble. 

Here&#039;s an example I like: Take your average layperson who believes that matter is made of atoms, or that biological life is made of cells, and ask that person, &quot;Where&#039;s the evidence for that?&quot; Most people don&#039;t know the evidential basis for even the most basic scientific ideas, and yet they believe them. This is somewhat appropriate, because not everyone can be experts in all of the world&#039;s history and the sciences. However, such beliefs should be held provisionally and uncertainly. Furthermore, it is inappropriate to claim such beliefs with an air of authority and knowledge when you do not have those things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice image, Polly. </p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>I know I'm in a bubble when I start rejecting some facts because they conflict with what I'm already presuming.</p></blockquote>
<p>Loads of apologists love to tell us atheists that <i>everyone</i> has faith, even us. (Obviously, this is true, but that doesn't give faith any epistemic validity.) We can still be humble and admit this, but at the same time proud of the fact that we're atheists and have planted our feet outside of what we identify as the wrong bubble. </p>
<p>Here's an example I like: Take your average layperson who believes that matter is made of atoms, or that biological life is made of cells, and ask that person, "Where's the evidence for that?" Most people don't know the evidential basis for even the most basic scientific ideas, and yet they believe them. This is somewhat appropriate, because not everyone can be experts in all of the world's history and the sciences. However, such beliefs should be held provisionally and uncertainly. Furthermore, it is inappropriate to claim such beliefs with an air of authority and knowledge when you do not have those things.</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38711</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38711</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Freethinking is a continuum. There are those who break free of the religious bubble but are still stuck in some larger bubble. In fact, I sometimes think that I will forever be pinpricking my way out of bubbles for the rest of my life. I may even inadvertantly step into other bubbles.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I know mike above already said it, but this strikes me as particularly perspicacious, too.  It ought to be enough to keep us somewhat humble so we never claim we&#039;ve &quot;arrived.&quot;  All of us are laboring under some misapprehensions, some way in which we&#039;re not perceiving reality clearly.  We&#039;ve got to keep on keeping on bursting bubbles--often our own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Freethinking is a continuum. There are those who break free of the religious bubble but are still stuck in some larger bubble. In fact, I sometimes think that I will forever be pinpricking my way out of bubbles for the rest of my life. I may even inadvertantly step into other bubbles.</p></blockquote>
<p>I know mike above already said it, but this strikes me as particularly perspicacious, too.  It ought to be enough to keep us somewhat humble so we never claim we've "arrived."  All of us are laboring under some misapprehensions, some way in which we're not perceiving reality clearly.  We've got to keep on keeping on bursting bubbles--often our own.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38710</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38710</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There are those who break free of the religious bubble but are still stuck in some larger bubble. In fact, I sometimes think that I will forever be pinpricking my way out of bubbles for the rest of my life. I may even inadvertantly step into other bubbles.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I really like that metaphor, Polly.. I think it&#039;s easy to fall into the trap of saying: just because I&#039;m now an atheist, I&#039;m free of delusion. Losing religion shouldn&#039;t be the end, but the beginning of the journey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There are those who break free of the religious bubble but are still stuck in some larger bubble. In fact, I sometimes think that I will forever be pinpricking my way out of bubbles for the rest of my life. I may even inadvertantly step into other bubbles.</p></blockquote>
<p>I really like that metaphor, Polly.. I think it's easy to fall into the trap of saying: just because I'm now an atheist, I'm free of delusion. Losing religion shouldn't be the end, but the beginning of the journey.</p>
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		<title>By: Polly</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38709</link>
		<dc:creator>Polly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38709</guid>
		<description>Freethinking is a continuum. There are those who break free of the religious bubble but are still stuck in some larger bubble. In fact, I sometimes think that I will forever be pinpricking my way out of bubbles for the rest of my life. I may even inadvertantly step into other bubbles.

I know I&#039;m in a bubble when I start rejecting some facts because they conflict with what I&#039;m already presuming.

Freedom is relative and not all atheists are freethinkers. Some just don&#039;t believe in god but not because they&#039;re skeptical or inquisitive in general. Some xians can be more free in their thinking than some atheists who are tethered to non-religious dogmas.
It&#039;s all about shedding one&#039;s presuppositions, whatever they may be. And it&#039;s a monumental task. I really do credit the INTERNET. Not just information, but discussion and the availability of real life people holding really different POV. It&#039;s a godsend...hehehehe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freethinking is a continuum. There are those who break free of the religious bubble but are still stuck in some larger bubble. In fact, I sometimes think that I will forever be pinpricking my way out of bubbles for the rest of my life. I may even inadvertantly step into other bubbles.</p>
<p>I know I'm in a bubble when I start rejecting some facts because they conflict with what I'm already presuming.</p>
<p>Freedom is relative and not all atheists are freethinkers. Some just don't believe in god but not because they're skeptical or inquisitive in general. Some xians can be more free in their thinking than some atheists who are tethered to non-religious dogmas.<br />
It's all about shedding one's presuppositions, whatever they may be. And it's a monumental task. I really do credit the INTERNET. Not just information, but discussion and the availability of real life people holding really different POV. It's a godsend...hehehehe</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38708</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38708</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;That&#039;s all it really takes to destroy their bubble...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would phrase the metaphor a little bit differently: that&#039;s all it takes for them to &lt;i&gt;see&lt;/i&gt; their bubble. Once they see distinctions between inside and outside the lens, religiously-raised believers will be able question the arbitrary reasons that they&#039;re in the bubble to begin with. (Community, tradition, faith, family/friends, feelings, social pressure, positive social activity, etc.) Obviously, some believers will keep to their bubble and try to defend it. Hopefully, though, they&#039;ll decide to work their way out and start thinking about things &quot;in the clear air&quot; before confining themselves inside the bubbles they were put in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite=""><p>That's all it really takes to destroy their bubble...</p></blockquote>
<p>I would phrase the metaphor a little bit differently: that's all it takes for them to <i>see</i> their bubble. Once they see distinctions between inside and outside the lens, religiously-raised believers will be able question the arbitrary reasons that they're in the bubble to begin with. (Community, tradition, faith, family/friends, feelings, social pressure, positive social activity, etc.) Obviously, some believers will keep to their bubble and try to defend it. Hopefully, though, they'll decide to work their way out and start thinking about things "in the clear air" before confining themselves inside the bubbles they were put in.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38707</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38707</guid>
		<description>Brad,

&quot;As long as the internet is open and supplies contact with various thoughts, it doesn&#039;t matter what&#039;s true/false information. Atheism should follow from free-thinking, and so freethought should be the primary concern if we want to eventually promote atheism in an honest way.&quot;

And that&#039;s the whole point: so long as there are opinions that contradict those put out by the leaders of society and religion there&#039;s no way they can ever re-establish their monopoly on information!  It doesn&#039;t matter how much &quot;truth&quot; there is in the conflicting information - all that matters is that there is conflicting information that can be easily accessed.  That&#039;s all it really takes to destroy their bubble...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>"As long as the internet is open and supplies contact with various thoughts, it doesn't matter what's true/false information. Atheism should follow from free-thinking, and so freethought should be the primary concern if we want to eventually promote atheism in an honest way."</p>
<p>And that's the whole point: so long as there are opinions that contradict those put out by the leaders of society and religion there's no way they can ever re-establish their monopoly on information!  It doesn't matter how much "truth" there is in the conflicting information - all that matters is that there is conflicting information that can be easily accessed.  That's all it really takes to destroy their bubble...</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38706</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/09/the-bubble.html#comment-38706</guid>
		<description>As long as the internet is open and supplies contact with various thoughts, it doesn&#039;t matter what&#039;s true/false information. Atheism should follow from free-thinking, and so freethought should be the primary concern if we want to eventually promote atheism in an honest way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as the internet is open and supplies contact with various thoughts, it doesn't matter what's true/false information. Atheism should follow from free-thinking, and so freethought should be the primary concern if we want to eventually promote atheism in an honest way.</p>
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