I suspect the problem is largely that people are so used to whispering around religion that an everyday voice sounds like a shout.

What a beautiful, eloquent way to put it. Lynet wins the thread for that comment. :)

I agree, brilliantly put, Lynet!

I believe the logic runs that since God created morality, morality is a Good Thing, so if nihilism denies God and morality it is a Bad Thing. Because, of course, good and bad are completely arbitrary designations with no meaning besides that which God gives them. This is, of course, completely different from when humans designate things good and bad, because that designation is entirely arbitrary and does not rest on God's will.

And if you understand that, congratulations, because I don't.

It's called moral relativism.

On point, here's a story about an Italian comedienne who faces five years in prison for lampooning the Pope. But watch out! Nasty atheists might hypothetically try to take away your free speech rights at some point in the future!

But Ebon, don't you see. The above is an example of righteous judgment against evil God-hating blasphemers. Atheist censorship would be malicious persecution of good God-fearing worshipers! Intent matters far more than consequences. After all, if the Church makes some tiny little mistake (Galileo, Bruno, Joan of Arc), she can apologize or canonize the victim a few centuries later. Don't worry, God will know his own. On the other hand, the victims of atheist persecution might never receive a posthumous apology and atheists are notoriously unwilling to canonize.

My question is why people like Goldstein (and other folks - some of them on this site) consider this such a "bad" thing. Even if the accusation is true that atheism leads to Nihilism (which I think it does if some one follows it through to its logical conclusion, but I admit that can be debated) why is that so dreadful that people feel the need to avoid it at any cost?

I believe the logic runs that since God created morality, morality is a Good Thing, so if nihilism denies God and morality it is a Bad Thing. Because, of course, good and bad are completely arbitrary designations with no meaning besides that which God gives them. This is, of course, completely different from when humans designate things good and bad, because that designation is entirely arbitrary and does not rest on God's will.

And if you understand that, congratulations, because I don't.

On point, here's a story about an Italian comedienne who faces five years in prison for lampooning the Pope. But watch out! Nasty atheists might hypothetically try to take away your free speech rights at some point in the future!

But Ebon, don't you see? This is an example of righteous judgment against evil people. Atheist censorship would be malicious persecution against good people! It's not the action that matters, it's the intent. And if we happen to make some tiny mistake we can always apologize or canonize the victim a few centuries later. Don't worry, God will know his own.

"I think Christopher speaks mainly of moral nihilism. I'm pretty sure he'd agree everyone can create their own little islands of "meaning." And I think xkcd has the more "cheerful" nihilism that dinosaur comics' Utahraptor speaks of."

I am a "moral" Nihilist, but also an existential Nihilist - I hold that life has no intrinsic meaning or value, but like you said we can create meaning for ourselves.

My question is why people like Goldstein (and other folks - some of them on this site) consider this such a "bad" thing. Even if the accusation is true that atheism leads to Nihilism (which I think it does if some one follows it through to its logical conclusion, but I admit that can be debated) why is that so dreadful that people feel the need to avoid it at any cost?

...

Conversation derailing contest?

(Yes, I revel in off-topicity.)