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	<title>Comments on: The Tempter Returns</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: Chet</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40974</link>
		<dc:creator>Chet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 04:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40974</guid>
		<description>I had kind of a problem when I first read this post - I was thinking &quot;great message, but why the supernatural imagery? Why does it have to read like something a theist wrote?&quot; - but recently, I think I got it.

I realized that this post actually does employ the supernatural in the one and only useful, valid way - as fictional characters, to tell us something true about ourselves.

Commendable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had kind of a problem when I first read this post - I was thinking "great message, but why the supernatural imagery? Why does it have to read like something a theist wrote?" - but recently, I think I got it.</p>
<p>I realized that this post actually does employ the supernatural in the one and only useful, valid way - as fictional characters, to tell us something true about ourselves.</p>
<p>Commendable.</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40583</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 22:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40583</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;m going to be watching closely.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You and me both.  I&#039;m not given to superstition, but I&#039;m willing to cross my fingers on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I'm going to be watching closely.</p></blockquote>
<p>You and me both.  I'm not given to superstition, but I'm willing to cross my fingers on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaltrosomos</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40581</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaltrosomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 22:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40581</guid>
		<description>@Mikespeir:
&quot;I don&#039;t know. I&#039;m pretty confident.&quot;

Isn&#039;t that what liberals were saying in 2004 about Kerry?  I remember thinking something along the lines of, &quot;How did THAT happen?&quot; after Bush won.  Perhaps this time, if McCain wins, the reaction will be people howling &quot;WTF???&quot; and falling into seizures.  

Seriously though, I think the media and the polls have been misleading us.  The race, I believe, is much tighter than news reports would lead us to believe. It could even be favorable to McCain.  

You say that Palin concerns you greatly.  Perhaps there is a similar distaste for Obama among a whole spectrum of conservatives of every stripe, thanks to Obama&#039;s liberal views.  Palin might increase liberal turnout in order to stop her ticket winning, but I bet Obama is having the same effect on the members of the Right. 

The liberal media is apparently trying to bluff Obama into the presidency, inflating his numbers among voters.  But this has got to be the worst thing to do, since the voters will call the bluff on election day.  What&#039;s more, if conservatives think they&#039;ve got their backs to the wall, they&#039;re going to vote in even greater numbers.

I think FDR said the best political tactic is to &quot;speak softly and carry a big stick.&quot;  The Obama campaign is howling and charging, but maybe all they&#039;ve got is a twig. 

Whatever the case, election day will clear the matter up.  I&#039;m going to be watching closely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mikespeir:<br />
"I don't know. I'm pretty confident."</p>
<p>Isn't that what liberals were saying in 2004 about Kerry?  I remember thinking something along the lines of, "How did THAT happen?" after Bush won.  Perhaps this time, if McCain wins, the reaction will be people howling "WTF???" and falling into seizures.  </p>
<p>Seriously though, I think the media and the polls have been misleading us.  The race, I believe, is much tighter than news reports would lead us to believe. It could even be favorable to McCain.  </p>
<p>You say that Palin concerns you greatly.  Perhaps there is a similar distaste for Obama among a whole spectrum of conservatives of every stripe, thanks to Obama's liberal views.  Palin might increase liberal turnout in order to stop her ticket winning, but I bet Obama is having the same effect on the members of the Right. </p>
<p>The liberal media is apparently trying to bluff Obama into the presidency, inflating his numbers among voters.  But this has got to be the worst thing to do, since the voters will call the bluff on election day.  What's more, if conservatives think they've got their backs to the wall, they're going to vote in even greater numbers.</p>
<p>I think FDR said the best political tactic is to "speak softly and carry a big stick."  The Obama campaign is howling and charging, but maybe all they've got is a twig. </p>
<p>Whatever the case, election day will clear the matter up.  I'm going to be watching closely.</p>
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		<title>By: Polly</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40580</link>
		<dc:creator>Polly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40580</guid>
		<description>@Ebonmuse,

Overall, I agree the world is making progress and the US has come unbelievably far in the space of a lifetime. I believe that the &quot;democratization&quot; of communication technology (hat-tip to that idiot, Thomas Friedman) will only help us to connect with one another more and possibly lead to greater understanding. Certainly more than the wave of ignorance we&#039;ve seen in this campaign from both sides.

But, it&#039;s slow going with a lot of really ugly detours. At home, we&#039;re heading toward a cliff and we have two bozos arguing about the best route to take there. I guess I&#039;ll just have to wait it out.

Until then...
There are only two kinds of people in the world - those with power and those without it. Stand up and look at your ass. If there isn&#039;t a congressman attached to it, you are the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ebonmuse,</p>
<p>Overall, I agree the world is making progress and the US has come unbelievably far in the space of a lifetime. I believe that the "democratization" of communication technology (hat-tip to that idiot, Thomas Friedman) will only help us to connect with one another more and possibly lead to greater understanding. Certainly more than the wave of ignorance we've seen in this campaign from both sides.</p>
<p>But, it's slow going with a lot of really ugly detours. At home, we're heading toward a cliff and we have two bozos arguing about the best route to take there. I guess I'll just have to wait it out.</p>
<p>Until then...<br />
There are only two kinds of people in the world - those with power and those without it. Stand up and look at your ass. If there isn't a congressman attached to it, you are the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40576</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40576</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It&#039;s been a while since assassins used stones... but it certainly would give the crime an authentic biblical air (sadistic, messy, etc) - which, given the group most keen on Palin&#039;s presidency, is scary.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You know, I&#039;m really not paranoid, but I have this icky feeling somebody&#039;s going to try to take out Obama before his inauguration.  Go over to http://www.lucianne.com/ and read the comments.  Thankfully, it&#039;s a small minority, but some of those people are &lt;i&gt;nuts!&lt;/i&gt;  Their comments are truly disturbing.  (For instance, read Reply 54 or Reply 60  here: http://lucianne.com/threads2.asp?artnum=433948 )  I hope the Secret Service knows its stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It's been a while since assassins used stones... but it certainly would give the crime an authentic biblical air (sadistic, messy, etc) - which, given the group most keen on Palin's presidency, is scary.</p></blockquote>
<p>You know, I'm really not paranoid, but I have this icky feeling somebody's going to try to take out Obama before his inauguration.  Go over to <a href="http://www.lucianne.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.lucianne.com/</a> and read the comments.  Thankfully, it's a small minority, but some of those people are <i>nuts!</i>  Their comments are truly disturbing.  (For instance, read Reply 54 or Reply 60  here: <a href="http://lucianne.com/threads2.asp?artnum=433948" rel="nofollow">http://lucianne.com/threads2.asp?artnum=433948</a> )  I hope the Secret Service knows its stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Joffan</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40573</link>
		<dc:creator>Joffan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40573</guid>
		<description>mikespeir&lt;blockquote&gt;I don&#039;t want her within a stone&#039;s throw of the Presidency.&lt;/blockquote&gt;It&#039;s been a while since assassins used stones... but it certainly would give the crime an authentic &lt;i&gt;biblical&lt;/i&gt; air (sadistic, messy, etc) - which, given the group most keen on Palin&#039;s presidency, is scary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mikespeir<br />
<blockquote>I don't want her within a stone's throw of the Presidency.</p></blockquote>
<p>It's been a while since assassins used stones... but it certainly would give the crime an authentic <i>biblical</i> air (sadistic, messy, etc) - which, given the group most keen on Palin's presidency, is scary.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40567</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40567</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The excitement that always comes with elections may have temporarily overpowered your good sense, but the day after the votes are cast, you&#039;ll come back to earth. The truth is that politics is a series of disappointments, and it always will be. The nature of the system practically guarantees it - it ensures that the only candidates who get into office are the ones who are most willing to do the bidding of the establishment and exploit popular prejudices.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;ll take the tempter&#039;s side on this one - no matter who wins political office, he/she will merely be a front for the special interest groups: the goal of every politician is to win elections and they need support from them to rally the votes from the proper demographics to do do that.  Since people are typically sheep it will be difficult for them to *not* cast their ballots in the manner their opinion leaders want them to.

I don&#039;t see anything shy of a complete failure of the existing social order (which just may happen in my lifetime - Wall Street is already starting to feel the strain of our society&#039;s debts backed soley by imaginary wealth) bringing about any real change to our political reality - as it&#039;s too infested with lobbyists and their puppets for conventional methods (like elections) to purge out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The excitement that always comes with elections may have temporarily overpowered your good sense, but the day after the votes are cast, you'll come back to earth. The truth is that politics is a series of disappointments, and it always will be. The nature of the system practically guarantees it - it ensures that the only candidates who get into office are the ones who are most willing to do the bidding of the establishment and exploit popular prejudices.</p></blockquote>
<p>I'll take the tempter's side on this one - no matter who wins political office, he/she will merely be a front for the special interest groups: the goal of every politician is to win elections and they need support from them to rally the votes from the proper demographics to do do that.  Since people are typically sheep it will be difficult for them to *not* cast their ballots in the manner their opinion leaders want them to.</p>
<p>I don't see anything shy of a complete failure of the existing social order (which just may happen in my lifetime - Wall Street is already starting to feel the strain of our society's debts backed soley by imaginary wealth) bringing about any real change to our political reality - as it's too infested with lobbyists and their puppets for conventional methods (like elections) to purge out.</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40565</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40565</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;m starting to get the feeling that Nov. 4 will be a surprise for the Left. Maybe I&#039;m wrong, but I just can&#039;t shake the feeling.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t know.  I&#039;m pretty confident.  I have to say I had been leaning toward McCain myself, although I can&#039;t get too enthusiastic about either candidate.  But when Palin joined the campaign, that changed everything.  I think she&#039;s somebody I wouldn&#039;t mind knowing personally, but I don&#039;t want her within a stone&#039;s throw of the Presidency.  I voted early, and I voted for Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I'm starting to get the feeling that Nov. 4 will be a surprise for the Left. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't shake the feeling.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don't know.  I'm pretty confident.  I have to say I had been leaning toward McCain myself, although I can't get too enthusiastic about either candidate.  But when Palin joined the campaign, that changed everything.  I think she's somebody I wouldn't mind knowing personally, but I don't want her within a stone's throw of the Presidency.  I voted early, and I voted for Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaltrosomos</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40562</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaltrosomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 06:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40562</guid>
		<description>&quot;Did Flew ever believe?&quot;

He might have been Protestant or Anglican in his younger years.  I don&#039;t know that for sure though.  But it seems likely that he was raised Anglican.  He hasn&#039;t returned to that yet, but you never know.  A week is a lifetime these days, in politics and in everything else.  

To sort of tie in to the theme of the original post, I&#039;m beginning to wonder if McCain might not pull out a victory.  I&#039;m starting to distrust the polls.  In fact, if McCain does win, I&#039;ll never trust a poll ever again.  Because if McCain does win, all the polls have been worthless this entire election cycle.  To add to the worry, McCain has a way of rising from the dead... There were lots of people that thought he was dead in the water during the primary season, and yet here he is.  

I&#039;m starting to get the feeling that Nov. 4 will be a surprise for the Left.  Maybe I&#039;m wrong, but I just can&#039;t shake the feeling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Did Flew ever believe?"</p>
<p>He might have been Protestant or Anglican in his younger years.  I don't know that for sure though.  But it seems likely that he was raised Anglican.  He hasn't returned to that yet, but you never know.  A week is a lifetime these days, in politics and in everything else.  </p>
<p>To sort of tie in to the theme of the original post, I'm beginning to wonder if McCain might not pull out a victory.  I'm starting to distrust the polls.  In fact, if McCain does win, I'll never trust a poll ever again.  Because if McCain does win, all the polls have been worthless this entire election cycle.  To add to the worry, McCain has a way of rising from the dead... There were lots of people that thought he was dead in the water during the primary season, and yet here he is.  </p>
<p>I'm starting to get the feeling that Nov. 4 will be a surprise for the Left.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't shake the feeling.</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40547</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40547</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Well, it may not have been necessary, but what would it have been???&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Tempter saved me the trouble of having to think of it. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Well, it may not have been necessary, but what would it have been???</p></blockquote>
<p>The Tempter saved me the trouble of having to think of it. :)</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40546</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40546</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Mikespeir, would Antony Flew&#039;s turn to Deism count?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Probably.  (Although I think your original comment was about lapsed believers reconverting.  Did Flew ever believe?)  I know his mental competence has been questioned a lot.  (I only know what I&#039;ve read, and I haven&#039;t read all that much.)  If he&#039;s not competent to make such decisions, his conversion is at best no more significant than that of an uninformed atheist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Mikespeir, would Antony Flew's turn to Deism count?</p></blockquote>
<p>Probably.  (Although I think your original comment was about lapsed believers reconverting.  Did Flew ever believe?)  I know his mental competence has been questioned a lot.  (I only know what I've read, and I haven't read all that much.)  If he's not competent to make such decisions, his conversion is at best no more significant than that of an uninformed atheist.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaltrosomos</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/10/the-tempter-returns.html#comment-40544</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaltrosomos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 01:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=863#comment-40544</guid>
		<description>&quot;I&#039;m sure that occasionally an informed atheist becomes a believer. I imagine it&#039;s exceedingly rare.&quot;

Mikespeir, would Antony Flew&#039;s turn to Deism count?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"I'm sure that occasionally an informed atheist becomes a believer. I imagine it's exceedingly rare."</p>
<p>Mikespeir, would Antony Flew's turn to Deism count?</p>
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