Comments on: Strange and Curious Sects: The Millerites http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:09:52 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Eurekus http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-67397 Eurekus Thu, 14 Jul 2011 03:23:00 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-67397 I'm an ex Seventh Day Adventist. Their claims are truly irrational and, at first, they give a wonderful sense of community. They have a bible study process that they use to lure new members. Introducing the person to more acceptable parts of the bible and leaving the more irrational and the more strict to later. The introduction to the more extreme teaching is only passed on once the intended new member has accepted the other teachings, and is not critical of what has been taught so far. When a believer is starting to become critical, they ignore him/her, until their beliefs are threatened and then the Pastors use hints that you are no longer welcome. Their aim from this is to stop you from pushing others into disbelief. They also warn others about the threat that comes from within and how a lost member is evidence of the church's 'Great Shaking' before the 2nd coming of Christ. My wife still is a SDA, but I'm slowly getting through to her. She still believes in God, but due to me teaching her real science, she's now doubting. I'm an ex Seventh Day Adventist. Their claims are truly irrational and, at first, they give a wonderful sense of community. They have a bible study process that they use to lure new members. Introducing the person to more acceptable parts of the bible and leaving the more irrational and the more strict to later. The introduction to the more extreme teaching is only passed on once the intended new member has accepted the other teachings, and is not critical of what has been taught so far. When a believer is starting to become critical, they ignore him/her, until their beliefs are threatened and then the Pastors use hints that you are no longer welcome. Their aim from this is to stop you from pushing others into disbelief. They also warn others about the threat that comes from within and how a lost member is evidence of the church's 'Great Shaking' before the 2nd coming of Christ.
My wife still is a SDA, but I'm slowly getting through to her. She still believes in God, but due to me teaching her real science, she's now doubting.

]]> By: Gil http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42322 Gil Sat, 13 Dec 2008 03:32:30 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42322 Your brieft artilce fails to mention that Miller had mediocre success until he predicted there'd be a sign in the sky - and, lo and behold, the Great Comet of 1843 appeared just at the right time. It was a comet that was not only visually large in terms of filling the night sky but also had a coma as big as the Sun and its tail stretched for over 200 million miles which is greater than the distance that Mars is from the Sun. >:) Your brieft artilce fails to mention that Miller had mediocre success until he predicted there'd be a sign in the sky - and, lo and behold, the Great Comet of 1843 appeared just at the right time. It was a comet that was not only visually large in terms of filling the night sky but also had a coma as big as the Sun and its tail stretched for over 200 million miles which is greater than the distance that Mars is from the Sun. >:)

]]> By: cl http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42298 cl Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:17:06 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42298 Brad, I didn't mean to. That's why I came back and explained. Brad,

I didn't mean to. That's why I came back and explained.

]]> By: Brad http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42291 Brad Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:43:07 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42291 cl, you created a totally different context as a stage for introducing your point, and that's why it was unclear. Most people read "died in disappointment" to mean died while in disappointment. cl, you created a totally different context as a stage for introducing your point, and that's why it was unclear. Most people read "died in disappointment" to mean died while in disappointment.

]]> By: VorJack http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42287 VorJack Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:47:28 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42287 I keep meaning to get up to the William Miller Farm and Ascension Rock. They're on the historic register and just a couple hours north or me, but they're run by the Adventists. I'm afraid it's all propaganda and no history. Has anyone ever been there? I keep meaning to get up to the William Miller Farm and Ascension Rock. They're on the historic register and just a couple hours north or me, but they're run by the Adventists. I'm afraid it's all propaganda and no history. Has anyone ever been there?

]]> By: cl http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42281 cl Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:03:33 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42281 Justin, I understand. I was speaking in a context like this: If a believer died still expecting Jesus to return or Allah to do this or that or whatever, they weren't disappointed if atheism is correct, because they died still expecting then their consciousness immediately ceased to exist, ie, many of these folk never get to experience the disappointment of being wrong. It was a joke not an insult or anything. Not even that good of a joke I guess if it was unclear though. I just thought there was some irony in the fact that if theists are wrong, it seems they'll never know the difference. Just a quick trip to the anesthesiologist and lights out. If that's the case, I've had surgeries and been knocked out from blows to the head so I know what to expect. OTOH, the converse is not so easy. Justin,

I understand. I was speaking in a context like this: If a believer died still expecting Jesus to return or Allah to do this or that or whatever, they weren't disappointed if atheism is correct, because they died still expecting then their consciousness immediately ceased to exist, ie, many of these folk never get to experience the disappointment of being wrong. It was a joke not an insult or anything. Not even that good of a joke I guess if it was unclear though. I just thought there was some irony in the fact that if theists are wrong, it seems they'll never know the difference. Just a quick trip to the anesthesiologist and lights out. If that's the case, I've had surgeries and been knocked out from blows to the head so I know what to expect. OTOH, the converse is not so easy.

]]> By: Justin http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42280 Justin Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:24:14 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42280 <blockquote>velkyn, <blockquote cite>How many theists have died in disappointment, finally realizing that they were so utterly wrong? </blockquote>According to atheism, none.</blockquote> According to athe<b>ism</b> or athe<b>ists</b>? Atheism is simply the lack of belief in any deities. It doesn't say whether believers will be disappointed at the time of death.

velkyn,

How many theists have died in disappointment, finally realizing that they were so utterly wrong?

According to atheism, none.

According to atheism or atheists?

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in any deities. It doesn't say whether believers will be disappointed at the time of death.

]]> By: cl http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42275 cl Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:39:38 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42275 velkyn, <blockquote>How many theists have died in disappointment, finally realizing that they were so utterly wrong?</blockquote> According to atheism, none. velkyn,

How many theists have died in disappointment, finally realizing that they were so utterly wrong?

According to atheism, none.

]]> By: MS (Quixote) http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42272 MS (Quixote) Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:54:30 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42272 <blockquote>Quixote, I think that would depend on what fantasies you are talking about.</blockquote> Don't get me wrong, Valhar, I agree with your live and let live stance. I was speaking more within a context of personal engagement. It seems a nearly universal human trait to be frustrated when you care deeply for something, but others can't or won't see it, especially when it seems so obvious to you. I think my comment was related to the "one less god" atheist intuition; an intuition that is one of the stronger notions in favor of atheism, IMO.

Quixote, I think that would depend on what fantasies you are talking about.

Don't get me wrong, Valhar, I agree with your live and let live stance. I was speaking more within a context of personal engagement. It seems a nearly universal human trait to be frustrated when you care deeply for something, but others can't or won't see it, especially when it seems so obvious to you. I think my comment was related to the "one less god" atheist intuition; an intuition that is one of the stronger notions in favor of atheism, IMO.

]]> By: velkyn http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42270 velkyn Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:28:46 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42270 This article, http://www.counterpunch.org/davis01082005.html does a good job on why this "investment" is so strong. Christians are so desperate to be sure that they are the teacher's pet of "God" that they need to think that the "end times" are coming just for them. How many theists have died in disappointment, finally realizing that they were so utterly wrong? This article, http://www.counterpunch.org/davis01082005.html does a good job on why this "investment" is so strong.

Christians are so desperate to be sure that they are the teacher's pet of "God" that they need to think that the "end times" are coming just for them.

How many theists have died in disappointment, finally realizing that they were so utterly wrong?

]]> By: Valhar2000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42264 Valhar2000 Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:10:17 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42264 Quixote, I think that would depend on what fantasies you are talking about. The frustration I experience while witnessing (what I consider) people's delusions stems not so much from the delusions as it does from the effects I observe, or predict, from those delusions. In other words, if you have wacky ideas, but those ideas do not compell you to harm yourself, or to harm others, I will mutter to myself "To each his own", and think of it no more. Quixote, I think that would depend on what fantasies you are talking about. The frustration I experience while witnessing (what I consider) people's delusions stems not so much from the delusions as it does from the effects I observe, or predict, from those delusions.

In other words, if you have wacky ideas, but those ideas do not compell you to harm yourself, or to harm others, I will mutter to myself "To each his own", and think of it no more.

]]> By: MS Quixote http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/strange-and-curious-sects-iv.html#comment-42260 MS Quixote Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:59:46 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=900#comment-42260 Ebon, Great post. I wasn't aware of the JW tie-in. As Christians, we perhaps have a little more first-hand experience with this type of religious activity. Your characterization is pretty accurate in many cases, IMO. I think it's humorous when I suppose that an atheist's frustration with me, for example, for my unwillingness to release myself from certain orthodox Christian fantasies must be very similar to my feelings when engaging with Christians a little further from the center of orthodoxy, such as the ones depicted in the OP. It's an interesting picture along the scale of belief I suppose. I would mention in passing, though, that premillenialism traces its roots to the early church. The brand of premillenialism that arose in the 1830's is dispensational premillenialism (cue Modus and the ridiculousness of theology:), which is not to be confused with historic premillenialism. It's the dispensational group that's still at the sensational (Left Behind), and sometimes predictive to the day, game. Ebon,

Great post. I wasn't aware of the JW tie-in. As Christians, we perhaps have a little more first-hand experience with this type of religious activity. Your characterization is pretty accurate in many cases, IMO.

I think it's humorous when I suppose that an atheist's frustration with me, for example, for my unwillingness to release myself from certain orthodox Christian fantasies must be very similar to my feelings when engaging with Christians a little further from the center of orthodoxy, such as the ones depicted in the OP. It's an interesting picture along the scale of belief I suppose.

I would mention in passing, though, that premillenialism traces its roots to the early church. The brand of premillenialism that arose in the 1830's is dispensational premillenialism (cue Modus and the ridiculousness of theology:), which is not to be confused with historic premillenialism. It's the dispensational group that's still at the sensational (Left Behind), and sometimes predictive to the day, game.

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