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	<title>Comments on: Why Hanukkah?</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html</link>
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		<title>By: Eliana</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-52357</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-52357</guid>
		<description>David, the book of Maccabees is, in fact, in the Catholic and Orthodox bible, just not in the modern Jewish or Protestant.  You can read it online at the website of the United States Conference for Catholic Bishops:  http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/index.shtml#1maccabees
And just because it&#039;s not considered part of the Jewish canon doesn&#039;t mean that the events are considered mythological, just that it is not part of the bible (probably because it was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew).  
If you&#039;re going to correct people, please get your facts right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, the book of Maccabees is, in fact, in the Catholic and Orthodox bible, just not in the modern Jewish or Protestant.  You can read it online at the website of the United States Conference for Catholic Bishops:  <a href="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/index.shtml#1maccabees" rel="nofollow">http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/index.shtml#1maccabees</a><br />
And just because it's not considered part of the Jewish canon doesn't mean that the events are considered mythological, just that it is not part of the bible (probably because it was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew).<br />
If you're going to correct people, please get your facts right.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-50672</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-50672</guid>
		<description>Eric Hass wrote:   &quot;Maccabees is not in Protestant versions of the Bible, but it is in Catholic versions.&quot;

No it is not in the Catholic bible. The Catholic bible, the Protestant Bible and the Eastern Orthodox bible are essentially identical and none include the Maccabees, which is a myth.

Jennifer A. Burdo wrote: &quot;Judaism still exists today primarily because it is exclusive. Not only does it not actively seek converts, it deliberately makes it difficult for others to actually convert when they want to. The dietary laws and many other elements isolate Judaism, and this isolation has allowed it to survive the population explosion that would otherwise have subsumed it into a greater whole.&quot;

Um no. Judaism grew through conversions. It was once very amendable to conversion including forced conversion. That is how it grew like heck in the time of Abraham, and again in the time of Moses, and again around the Roman Period. 

In terms of percentage of world population Judaism is declining and has been for hundreds of years and would have ben doing so even without the genocide of the 1940s.

In terms of dietary laws, most classical historians believe these arose to anathematize others, make it acceptable to be displaced as unbelievers or taboo breakers. Monotheism generally does this (polytheism was more tolerant) and dietary laws are a specific mechanism. We know that Canaan and Palestine urban settled culture includes pig bones and evidence of shell fish eating as the primary proteins from thousands of years until the arrival of the Jews. What better way of justifying displacement than to claim that the indigenous people are breaking &quot;gods laws.&quot; Missionaries used to do this even concerning the sexual positions of natives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric Hass wrote:   "Maccabees is not in Protestant versions of the Bible, but it is in Catholic versions."</p>
<p>No it is not in the Catholic bible. The Catholic bible, the Protestant Bible and the Eastern Orthodox bible are essentially identical and none include the Maccabees, which is a myth.</p>
<p>Jennifer A. Burdo wrote: "Judaism still exists today primarily because it is exclusive. Not only does it not actively seek converts, it deliberately makes it difficult for others to actually convert when they want to. The dietary laws and many other elements isolate Judaism, and this isolation has allowed it to survive the population explosion that would otherwise have subsumed it into a greater whole."</p>
<p>Um no. Judaism grew through conversions. It was once very amendable to conversion including forced conversion. That is how it grew like heck in the time of Abraham, and again in the time of Moses, and again around the Roman Period. </p>
<p>In terms of percentage of world population Judaism is declining and has been for hundreds of years and would have ben doing so even without the genocide of the 1940s.</p>
<p>In terms of dietary laws, most classical historians believe these arose to anathematize others, make it acceptable to be displaced as unbelievers or taboo breakers. Monotheism generally does this (polytheism was more tolerant) and dietary laws are a specific mechanism. We know that Canaan and Palestine urban settled culture includes pig bones and evidence of shell fish eating as the primary proteins from thousands of years until the arrival of the Jews. What better way of justifying displacement than to claim that the indigenous people are breaking "gods laws." Missionaries used to do this even concerning the sexual positions of natives.</p>
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		<title>By: Sgeo</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42366</link>
		<dc:creator>Sgeo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42366</guid>
		<description>Growing up Jewish, I remember when people in school would ask &quot;Do you celebrate Christmas or Chanukkah?&quot; This made no sense to me, as in my opinion, Chanukkah wasn&#039;t a particularly important holiday, unlike, say, Pesach (Passover). I once answered &quot;I celebrate Purim.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Growing up Jewish, I remember when people in school would ask "Do you celebrate Christmas or Chanukkah?" This made no sense to me, as in my opinion, Chanukkah wasn't a particularly important holiday, unlike, say, Pesach (Passover). I once answered "I celebrate Purim."</p>
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		<title>By: Leum</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42156</link>
		<dc:creator>Leum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 06:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42156</guid>
		<description>But Maccabees is not, in any case, in the Jewish Bible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Maccabees is not, in any case, in the Jewish Bible.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Haas</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42147</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Haas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 05:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42147</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The mythological events that inspired it aren&#039;t even in the Bible proper, but in the apocryphal books of Maccabees.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Maccabees is not in Protestant versions of the Bible, but it is in Catholic versions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The mythological events that inspired it aren't even in the Bible proper, but in the apocryphal books of Maccabees.</p></blockquote>
<p>Maccabees is not in Protestant versions of the Bible, but it is in Catholic versions.</p>
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		<title>By: Polly</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42101</link>
		<dc:creator>Polly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 16:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42101</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Judaism still exists today primarily because it is exclusive...The dietary laws and many other elements isolate Judaism, and this isolation has allowed it to survive the population explosion that would otherwise have subsumed it into a greater whole.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
So true. Holding on to the ethnic religion and customs has prevented many other peoples from assimilation into oblivion. e.g. Native Americans who maintain their traditions, the Hazara of Afghanistan under the Taliban, the Armenians in the Ottoman empire, The Chechens in the Russian empire, the Irish in the &lt;b&gt;English&lt;/b&gt; empire, the Saami (AKA Lapps) in Scandinavia and Finnland.

Those who didn&#039;t have or hold to their own culture/religion were assimilated and disappeared. How many people speak Cornish, Ainu, or Votic? Not that many. And it&#039;s only due to great effort that these languages are not already extinct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Judaism still exists today primarily because it is exclusive...The dietary laws and many other elements isolate Judaism, and this isolation has allowed it to survive the population explosion that would otherwise have subsumed it into a greater whole.</p></blockquote>
<p>So true. Holding on to the ethnic religion and customs has prevented many other peoples from assimilation into oblivion. e.g. Native Americans who maintain their traditions, the Hazara of Afghanistan under the Taliban, the Armenians in the Ottoman empire, The Chechens in the Russian empire, the Irish in the <b>English</b> empire, the Saami (AKA Lapps) in Scandinavia and Finnland.</p>
<p>Those who didn't have or hold to their own culture/religion were assimilated and disappeared. How many people speak Cornish, Ainu, or Votic? Not that many. And it's only due to great effort that these languages are not already extinct.</p>
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		<title>By: lpetrich</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42074</link>
		<dc:creator>lpetrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42074</guid>
		<description>We English speakers a nice good traditional name for this festival: &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yule&lt;/a&gt;

It&#039;s the old Germanic name, and Scandinavians continue to use cognates of it.

And the Roman name for it was &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Saturnalia&lt;/a&gt;, a time of great merriment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We English speakers a nice good traditional name for this festival: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule" rel="nofollow">Yule</a></p>
<p>It's the old Germanic name, and Scandinavians continue to use cognates of it.</p>
<p>And the Roman name for it was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia" rel="nofollow">Saturnalia</a>, a time of great merriment.</p>
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		<title>By: Greta Christina</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42072</link>
		<dc:creator>Greta Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42072</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s another reason Hanukkah has gotten more focus in the U.S. And that&#039;s that, to some extent, holidays arise out of the rhythms of the weather in a particular region. In places like Europe and the U.S., the social need for a festival of lights and food and gift-giving during the darkest, coldest time of year is pretty strong. 

I mean, even in the Christian religious tradition, Christmas isn&#039;t the most important holiday. Theologically speaking, Easter is. By far. But Easter gets relatively short shrift in U.S. culture. If Christmas/ Hanukkah hadn&#039;t existed, it would have been necessary to invent them. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;the religious right&#039;s incredibly ironic campaign to demand that retailers use their most sacred holiday to sell things.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Seriously. I hadn&#039;t thought about it in quite those terms... but you&#039;re right. If anything, I&#039;d think that hard-core religious people would push for Christmas to be less commercialized, not more. But then, the religious right isn&#039;t really about theology -- it&#039;s about theocracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there's another reason Hanukkah has gotten more focus in the U.S. And that's that, to some extent, holidays arise out of the rhythms of the weather in a particular region. In places like Europe and the U.S., the social need for a festival of lights and food and gift-giving during the darkest, coldest time of year is pretty strong. </p>
<p>I mean, even in the Christian religious tradition, Christmas isn't the most important holiday. Theologically speaking, Easter is. By far. But Easter gets relatively short shrift in U.S. culture. If Christmas/ Hanukkah hadn't existed, it would have been necessary to invent them. </p>
<blockquote><p>the religious right's incredibly ironic campaign to demand that retailers use their most sacred holiday to sell things.</p></blockquote>
<p>Seriously. I hadn't thought about it in quite those terms... but you're right. If anything, I'd think that hard-core religious people would push for Christmas to be less commercialized, not more. But then, the religious right isn't really about theology -- it's about theocracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer A. Burdoo</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42071</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer A. Burdoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42071</guid>
		<description>&quot;It&#039;s a lesson in inclusiveness that the religion in its modern form could definitely stand to relearn.&quot;

Only just noticed this sentence.  Judaism still exists today primarily because it is exclusive.  Not only does it not actively seek converts, it deliberately makes it difficult for others to actually convert when they want to.  The dietary laws and many other elements isolate Judaism, and this isolation has allowed it to survive the population explosion that would otherwise have subsumed it into a greater whole.  Perhaps that occurrence would have been for the best, but perhaps not.  Even the most assimilated Jews (and Germany had probably the most assimilated community) did not escape persecution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"It's a lesson in inclusiveness that the religion in its modern form could definitely stand to relearn."</p>
<p>Only just noticed this sentence.  Judaism still exists today primarily because it is exclusive.  Not only does it not actively seek converts, it deliberately makes it difficult for others to actually convert when they want to.  The dietary laws and many other elements isolate Judaism, and this isolation has allowed it to survive the population explosion that would otherwise have subsumed it into a greater whole.  Perhaps that occurrence would have been for the best, but perhaps not.  Even the most assimilated Jews (and Germany had probably the most assimilated community) did not escape persecution.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42070</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42070</guid>
		<description>Nowhere in the Messianic Scriptures does it mention anything regarding a celebration, a festival or even commemorating anything to do with the day of His birth. It is only at His final Passover meal with His disciples that Jesus says anything about remembering Him: &quot;And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it, and gave it to them, saying, &#039;This is My body which is given for you; do this [celebrate the Passover] in remembrance of Me&#039;&quot; (Luke 22:19). I guess the early Xians just couldn&#039;t stand the pagan solstice celebrations so they simply stole them. It was a War on Yule!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nowhere in the Messianic Scriptures does it mention anything regarding a celebration, a festival or even commemorating anything to do with the day of His birth. It is only at His final Passover meal with His disciples that Jesus says anything about remembering Him: "And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it, and gave it to them, saying, 'This is My body which is given for you; do this [celebrate the Passover] in remembrance of Me'" (Luke 22:19). I guess the early Xians just couldn't stand the pagan solstice celebrations so they simply stole them. It was a War on Yule!</p>
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		<title>By: lpetrich</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42069</link>
		<dc:creator>lpetrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 22:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42069</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m reminded of a winter-solstice holiday that is almost hopelessly fake: Kwanzaa. That pseudo-African holiday was invented by a black nationalist in the 1960&#039;s, and its inventor does not seem to have researched traditional African food crops very well. Ears of American corn??? Give me a break.

And also of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.humanlight.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;HumanLight&lt;/a&gt;, invented by members of the New Jersey Humanist Network back in 2001, so that those members could celebrate a winter-solstice holiday while not having to hide their identities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm reminded of a winter-solstice holiday that is almost hopelessly fake: Kwanzaa. That pseudo-African holiday was invented by a black nationalist in the 1960's, and its inventor does not seem to have researched traditional African food crops very well. Ears of American corn??? Give me a break.</p>
<p>And also of <a href="http://www.humanlight.org/" rel="nofollow">HumanLight</a>, invented by members of the New Jersey Humanist Network back in 2001, so that those members could celebrate a winter-solstice holiday while not having to hide their identities.</p>
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		<title>By: ChristineS</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2008/12/why-hanukkah.html#comment-42068</link>
		<dc:creator>ChristineS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 22:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=896#comment-42068</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really have a lot to add to this, other than to express my happiness (and admittedly, a bit of envy) at the fact that your parents not only read your blog, but support you in what you do. You&#039;re a lucky man!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't really have a lot to add to this, other than to express my happiness (and admittedly, a bit of envy) at the fact that your parents not only read your blog, but support you in what you do. You're a lucky man!</p>
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