Comments on: On Storytelling

By: Steve Bowen

Steve Bowen — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:42:14 +0000

I'm going to have to agree with OMGF here:

Hey! glad I got you guys to agree on something:P I'll try to listen to more of Bad Religion, I'm sure you are both right about them.

By: cl

cl — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:58:34 +0000

I'm going to have to agree with OMGF here:

(musically I found Bad Religion a bit derivative, Greenday?)

BR came way before Greenday, and they used to be punk. My favorites were always the stuff on 80-85, Suffer, Against the Grain, and No Control. I grew up on BR even though I was never an atheist, and can still recite many songs verbatim. Graffin is such a good writer and really has a way with words. At any rate, it's only newer BR that has the melodic, poppy sound you're correctly identifying with Greenday.

By: OMGF

OMGF — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:31:17 +0000

Steve Bowen,

...musically I found Bad Religion a bit derivative, Greenday?...

Oh, please don't. If one is derivative of the other, it's the other way around!

I hear what you are saying though about songs that can be sung by 5 year olds.

By: cl

cl — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:45:42 +0000

So, how do you defeat a story? Not with logic and reason... No, the way to defeat a story is with a better story.

Hell, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

By: Steve Bowen

Steve Bowen — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:53:40 +0000

OMGF, Mathew Wilder, Christine.
Finally found the time to check out Bad Religion and Greydon Square, thanks for the pointers. Both were very interesting and expressed aspects of the atheist outlook (musically I found Bad Religion a bit derivative, Greenday?) and Greydon in particular (though Hip Hop is not my natural environment) obviously approaches a lot of his lyrics from a scientific world view. However, in the context of the OP this was not really what I was getting at. Ebon has said

Our society does not value critical thinking and skepticism highly, but rather steadfast faith and decisions based on emotion. In such an atmosphere, it is not surprising that rational arguments against Christianity or any other religion have made relatively little headway.
On the other hand, what can and does flourish in such an environment is another story, one that appeals to people on the same emotional level as Christianity and taps the same feelings:...

Not only does religion have the Biblical narrative but also the reinforcing background of hymns and carols which (in the UK at any rate) we learn from infant school. Over xmas I was at my youngest daughter's carol service, and without the aid of the song sheet (work made me late) I easily sang along with all of the carols; Little town of Bethlehem, Away in a manger, Silent night et al, embedded as they are in my psyche over decades. In order to have people grow up with the rational scientific world view we need songs that can be sung by 5 year olds which don't start with the antagonistic premise (There's no God Yeah, Yeah!! etc etc) but with a catchy, memorable positive attribution to evolution, secular morality and the real wonder of the universe we inhabit. Alongside the unfolding narrative of scientific enlightenment, we should be helping future generations plug into the zeitgeist with song.

By: Christopher

Christopher — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 03:24:59 +0000

If you want an "Atheist song" try "Helleluyah: 'God' is Dead" by Vader (from their "Impressions in Blood" album).

Lyrics:

Passing the empty house
I see the thing upon the Wall
Wooden sticks crossed together
And kneeling man talking to the effigy of steel...
God is Dead!!! Dead !!! Helleluyah!!!

Smell of burnt bodies
Slaughtered virgin lies dead without the face
Men staring at the skies
Singing lines and eating sand of waste...
God is Dead!!! Dead !!! Helleluyah!!!

Wandering the globe around
I saw no miracles nor wonders
Humanity so poisoned by their myths
Why none can see my wings?!
God is Dead!!! Dead !!! Helleluyah!!

By: Christine

Christine — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:52:35 +0000

@Steve: I second the Bad Religion recommendation. Their song "Atheist Peace" is an especially good one.

And the world might cease/ if we fail to tame the beast/From the faith that you release/Comes an atheist peace...

By: OMGF

OMGF — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:35:44 +0000

This is who I was thinking of from the above comment.

By: OMGF

OMGF — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:13:36 +0000

I don't listen to a lot of rap, but there's a group called Dead Prez that has some very good atheistic verses like this (paraphrased):

I'd grab the intercom
My first words would be
Man made god out of ignorance and fear
If god made man, well why the hell would he put us here
He's supposed to be the all-loving
The same god who let Hitler put the Jews in the oven

Also, on Pharyngula about a year ago, there was some atheist rap music that was pretty good that took on intelligent design.

By: Steve Bowen

Steve Bowen — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:59:24 +0000

Does "Imagine" come close to what you were thinking?

I guess it would have to, with the proviso that the singer doesn't change the lyric to one religion too, as some do. Yes, all rise and turn to page one in your atheist hymnal. But, I'm really thinking of a way to do what Ebon is talking about and tell the competing story to (e.g) "All things bright and beautiful" where "the lord God" doesn't "make them all".

By: MS (Quixote)

MS (Quixote) — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:40:16 +0000

explicity atheist song that passes the "old grey whistle test"?

Does "Imagine" come close to what you were thinking?

By: Mathew Wilder

Mathew Wilder — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:59:08 +0000

@ Steve Bowen: Bad Religion has quite a few anti-religious/freethinking songs that aren't dry or preachy. The key is to express your feelings, and not try to write the song equivalent of Hitchens' God Is Not Great.