And, they are on topic. If you are going to try and argue that it is wrong to take embryonic stem cells because they are human beings, just like children, then these questions probe how consistent you are with that. Considering that protests outside of abortion clinics happen frequently, but that no one protests outside of fertility clinics, I have to wonder why that is. I also have to wonder if you really would try to save embryos from a freezer (given the key or not) if the building were on fire. Or, given the choice of being able to save 100 embryos or one child, which would you choose? The point is that you probably would not try to save the embryos, in either situation, because we implicitly recognize the differences between us and embryos.

Are you against fertility clinics?

Yes.

If an IVF clinic were on fire, would you save the embryos trapped in the freezer?

Would you run into a building on fire with Children locked inside a classroom, in which you do not have a key?

I'm answering these questions because they're not on topic.

There are currently several limitations to using adult stem cells. Although many different kinds of multipotent stem cells have been identified, adult stem cells that could give rise to all cell and tissue types have not yet been found. Adult stem cells are often present in only minute quantities and can therefore be difficult to isolate and purify. There is also evidence that they may not have the same capacity to multiply as embryonic stem cells do. Finally, adult stem cells may contain more DNA abnormalities—caused by sunlight, toxins, and errors in making more DNA copies during the course of a lifetime. These potential weaknesses might limit the usefulness of adult stem cells.

We want to use embryonic cells because they are pluripotent, meaning they have the capacity to develop into any type of cell that we direct. We are still learning exactly how to direct them, but that's why we want embryonic cells. Adult cells are more flexible than we thought from the outset, but still not as flexible as embryonic cells.

Now, I see you are very keyed up on only using adult cells, but you forget where the embryonic cells come from. They come from fertility clinics from embryos that are not going to be carried to term anyway. Are you against fertility clinics? If an IVF clinic were on fire, would you save the embryos trapped in the freezer? I see that you never address these questions. Why is that?

why are do you want to turn adult stem cells into embryonic stem cells? what is the benefit?

We need to know what is different about the two types to be able to do that (i.e. for your opposition argument that we don't need embryonic stem cells because adult stem cells can do the job to become true, we need to do research on embryonic stem cells anyway).

Besides, when you do science you never really know what you are going to find, but as a religious person you probably have a hard accepting that.

There are a lot of things we can't do with adult stem cells that we might be able to with embryonic stem cells.

What are those?

Yeah, it's bad, even reality has a liberal bias.

It's official! there's something not quite "right" with the universe.

I don't share your assumption that it failed last time, so your question is meaningless to me. I do know that government intervention in the economy has been tried again and again with similar results.

Ah yes, 1987, when government intervention in the aftermath of a stock market crash worse than the one which started the great depression prevented a repeat.

Kaltro:

I think that given the chance humans can organize themselves into harmonious society without the strong arm of a state.

We do, it is called a state.

Kaltro:

You seem to think that without the state humans would degenerate into Hobbes's war of all against all. In other words, you believe that humans are totally or mostly depraved and that they will become evil monsters without some sort of restraining authority. I'm not so pessimistic.

There will always be those who prey on the weak, the only defence the weak have against them is to either band together to defend themselves (which eventually becomes a government, usually a dictatorship) or to just do whatever the strong say (in which case it becomes a dictatorship).

Kaltro:

As for examples, a fairly current one would be Freetown Christiana in Copenhagen. That one isn't very large but it is an example.

It also has to follow Danish law.

Kaltro:

Another would be the Icelandic Free State during medieval times.

That is one of the better examples although even that had it's problems (like a law requiring everyone be baptised).

Kaltro:

There are others I'm unaware of, I'm sure. The past is huge and it's easy to miss things.

Not a very good argument that.

Let's try another argument:

There is proof of God I'm unaware of, I'm sure. The universe is huge and it's easy to miss things.

One of the stupidest arguments for the existence of a god out there.

Saying that the universe or the past or whatever is huge and that what you claim to exist is out there isn't good enough, you have to actually find what you exists.

Adam:

Isn't the purpose of embryonic stem cell research to get the results we're already getting in other area's of stem cell research??

There are a lot of things we can't do with adult stem cells that we might be able to with embryonic stem cells.

Even so, there's a lot of potential research we could get out of embryonic stem cells (and you're going to have a much harder time figuring out how to turn adult stem cells into embryonic stem cells if don't research embryonic stem cells).

Adam:

Why must we spend billions of dollars to reinvent the wheel if it's already working? Cures are happening!!!

But we are likely to create even more cures if we spend those billions of dollars on embryonic stem cell research.

Adam:

Is there not anyone on the web board that agrees with me?

Did you ever ask whether it might have something to do with you being wrong?

Kaltro:

I am frustrated by the pervasive liberal bias though.

Yeah, it's bad, even reality has a liberal bias.

Why must we spend billions of dollars to reinvent the wheel if it's already working? Cures are happening!!!

Because (as I already explained) embryonic stem cells open up avenues that we simply can't reach with adult stem cells.

So, can I take it that you would rush into a burning IVF clinic to save the frozen embryos?

Suit yourselves. I'm not debating any longer.