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	<title>Comments on: Catholicism Kills</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: Sophie's Ladder. Christian theology, philosophy, world religions, science.</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45500</link>
		<dc:creator>Sophie's Ladder. Christian theology, philosophy, world religions, science.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45500</guid>
		<description>[...] Catholic Priest with Sex Manual (OK, now THAT&#8217;s funny); Lancet Scolds Pope&#8217;s Idiocy;  Catholicism Kills;   Richard Dawkins Says Pope is  Stupid Whilst Looking a Bit Mental ; Pope sticks to script in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Catholic Priest with Sex Manual (OK, now THAT&#8217;s funny); Lancet Scolds Pope&#8217;s Idiocy;  Catholicism Kills;   Richard Dawkins Says Pope is  Stupid Whilst Looking a Bit Mental ; Pope sticks to script in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45404</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45404</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Since Green doesn&#039;t cite any actual studies demonstrating that condom use is ineffective against AIDS, there&#039;s not much to rebut. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

He&#039;s written whole book on the subjects
“AIDS and Ideology” 
&quot;Rethinking AIDS Prevention: Learning from Successes in Developing Countries&quot;

You make it sound like he&#039;s just making the stuff up.  He&#039;s also quoted as saying:

“There is a consistent association shown by our best studies, including the U.S.-funded ‘Demographic Health Surveys,’ between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates. This may be due in part to a phenomenon known as risk compensation, meaning that when one uses a risk-reduction ‘technology’ such as condoms, one often loses the benefit (reduction in risk) by ‘compensating’ or taking greater chances than one would take without the risk-reduction technology.”
(related cite: http://www.measuredhs.com/)

What needs to happend is that we need to treat people as people. Reason with them and show them there is a better way to live, respectful of themselves and others.
Right now in these african countries men&#039;s way of thinking is, &quot;I can do what ever I want to women because they&#039;re an object for my lust...even my wife is an object to my lust&quot;  

The CDC agrees : http://www.lifenews.com/nat328.html
(related cite: http://www.cdc.gov)

It’s a common-sense message whether you’re in Africa or dealing with hormonal American teenagers. It’s a hard message to hear over the same-old silly debates, parodies, and dismissals.  But if the mind set of African men does not change, throwing condoms is not going to solve the problem...it&#039;s like using bandaids to try and fix open heart surgery</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Since Green doesn't cite any actual studies demonstrating that condom use is ineffective against AIDS, there's not much to rebut. </p></blockquote>
<p>He's written whole book on the subjects<br />
“AIDS and Ideology”<br />
"Rethinking AIDS Prevention: Learning from Successes in Developing Countries"</p>
<p>You make it sound like he's just making the stuff up.  He's also quoted as saying:</p>
<p>“There is a consistent association shown by our best studies, including the U.S.-funded ‘Demographic Health Surveys,’ between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates. This may be due in part to a phenomenon known as risk compensation, meaning that when one uses a risk-reduction ‘technology’ such as condoms, one often loses the benefit (reduction in risk) by ‘compensating’ or taking greater chances than one would take without the risk-reduction technology.”<br />
(related cite: <a href="http://www.measuredhs.com/)" rel="nofollow">http://www.measuredhs.com/)</a></p>
<p>What needs to happend is that we need to treat people as people. Reason with them and show them there is a better way to live, respectful of themselves and others.<br />
Right now in these african countries men's way of thinking is, "I can do what ever I want to women because they're an object for my lust...even my wife is an object to my lust"  </p>
<p>The CDC agrees : <a href="http://www.lifenews.com/nat328.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lifenews.com/nat328.html</a><br />
(related cite: <a href="http://www.cdc.gov)" rel="nofollow">http://www.cdc.gov)</a></p>
<p>It’s a common-sense message whether you’re in Africa or dealing with hormonal American teenagers. It’s a hard message to hear over the same-old silly debates, parodies, and dismissals.  But if the mind set of African men does not change, throwing condoms is not going to solve the problem...it's like using bandaids to try and fix open heart surgery</p>
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		<title>By: nfpendleton</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45309</link>
		<dc:creator>nfpendleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45309</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don&#039;t have as many people who believe it.&quot;

--George Carlin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it."</p>
<p>--George Carlin</p>
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		<title>By: Ebonmuse</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45303</link>
		<dc:creator>Ebonmuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45303</guid>
		<description>On this topic, &lt;i&gt;The Lancet&lt;/i&gt; has accused the pope of &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7967173.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;distorting scientific evidence&lt;/a&gt;&quot; in the debate over condom use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On this topic, <i>The Lancet</i> has accused the pope of "<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7967173.stm" rel="nofollow">distorting scientific evidence</a>" in the debate over condom use.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45265</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45265</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t understand why the Catholic church is still taken seriously.  The church as an institution had a cover-up of large numbers of priests raping kids, a Pope in fancy robes living in a palace telling us not to be greedy, the excommunication of a 9-year old and not the thing that raped her and now this, all in the past few years.  The church also claims to be on the side of science, yet they make these utterly debunked claims regarding abstinence-only education and birth control.  Why does anyone give them any respect or money?  Why haven&#039;t countries expelled their Vatican ambassadors?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don't understand why the Catholic church is still taken seriously.  The church as an institution had a cover-up of large numbers of priests raping kids, a Pope in fancy robes living in a palace telling us not to be greedy, the excommunication of a 9-year old and not the thing that raped her and now this, all in the past few years.  The church also claims to be on the side of science, yet they make these utterly debunked claims regarding abstinence-only education and birth control.  Why does anyone give them any respect or money?  Why haven't countries expelled their Vatican ambassadors?</p>
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		<title>By: LeeJH</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45239</link>
		<dc:creator>LeeJH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45239</guid>
		<description>The pope isn&#039;t ignorant, although he is lying.  Like George W Bush, he&#039;s simply bending the world towards the way he&#039;d like it to be - regardless of the facts.  He knows that his methods don&#039;t work, but only cares that people at least try to act &#039;morally&#039; as he wants them to - even if they overwhelmingly fail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pope isn't ignorant, although he is lying.  Like George W Bush, he's simply bending the world towards the way he'd like it to be - regardless of the facts.  He knows that his methods don't work, but only cares that people at least try to act 'morally' as he wants them to - even if they overwhelmingly fail.</p>
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		<title>By: OMGF</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45238</link>
		<dc:creator>OMGF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45238</guid>
		<description>Sort of off-topic, but...

&lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/a_heartless_faith.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Speaking of Catholicism&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sort of off-topic, but...</p>
<p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/a_heartless_faith.php" rel="nofollow">Speaking of Catholicism</a></p>
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		<title>By: Epsilon Clue &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Russian Orthodox Church Also Wants People to Die</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45234</link>
		<dc:creator>Epsilon Clue &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Russian Orthodox Church Also Wants People to Die</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45234</guid>
		<description>[...] lot of people have written about the pope&#8217;s remarks about about condoms in Africa and AIDS. Comments that, if heeded, will cause the death of hundreds or [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lot of people have written about the pope&#8217;s remarks about about condoms in Africa and AIDS. Comments that, if heeded, will cause the death of hundreds or [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nurse Ingrid</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45232</link>
		<dc:creator>Nurse Ingrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45232</guid>
		<description>Tommykey:

&quot;I think a celibate Italian weirdo knows a lit-tle more about sex than you do!&quot;

(Ned Flanders, in character as Sir Thomas More, to Homer Simpson as Henry VIII)

(Of course, now it&#039;s a celibate German weirdo. Same difference.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tommykey:</p>
<p>"I think a celibate Italian weirdo knows a lit-tle more about sex than you do!"</p>
<p>(Ned Flanders, in character as Sir Thomas More, to Homer Simpson as Henry VIII)</p>
<p>(Of course, now it's a celibate German weirdo. Same difference.)</p>
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		<title>By: LiquidThinker</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45231</link>
		<dc:creator>LiquidThinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45231</guid>
		<description>Well, I sort of attributed (as one factor anyway) the Pope&#039;s obvious moral confusion to trying to get his morals from the Bible.  That book is a complete mess as far as getting any sort of moral direction or examples of good moral behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I sort of attributed (as one factor anyway) the Pope's obvious moral confusion to trying to get his morals from the Bible.  That book is a complete mess as far as getting any sort of moral direction or examples of good moral behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45229</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45229</guid>
		<description>Twin-skies,

Those articles are no more convincing than the Pope coming out with the message that no one should have sex.  Let me see the actual data; let me see the evidence.  

A crude search on google scholar for &quot;condom effectiveness&quot; will get you loads of current scientific research backing up the claim.  Search for &quot;condom ineffectiveness&quot; and you get few articles (let alone current articles) with research showing the ineffectiveness of condoms.

This doesn&#039;t prove the Harvard researcher wrong, but it does demonstrate that the science is out there, and the data are plentiful.  The Pope and others have hundreds of studies to investigate and ample data to analyze if they want to show us some scientific evidence to back up their claim.  

When the Pope puts together controlled scientific studies to back up his claim, then maybe his remarks will be worth considering.  Until then, to encourage safe sex practices spring for some education (for example, why aids spreads and how to prevent it) and offer behavioral skills training (an aspect of that would be condom use:  &quot;here&#039;s a condom, this is how to use it&quot;).

We&#039;d be horrified if doctors prescribed medication with no data/evidence to support its efficacy.  We&#039;d be outraged if psychologists made up or used ineffective therapies to treat mentally ill individuals.  Thus, we should be equally disgusted by the Pope&#039;s prescription of (ineffective) abstinence-only teaching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Twin-skies,</p>
<p>Those articles are no more convincing than the Pope coming out with the message that no one should have sex.  Let me see the actual data; let me see the evidence.  </p>
<p>A crude search on google scholar for "condom effectiveness" will get you loads of current scientific research backing up the claim.  Search for "condom ineffectiveness" and you get few articles (let alone current articles) with research showing the ineffectiveness of condoms.</p>
<p>This doesn't prove the Harvard researcher wrong, but it does demonstrate that the science is out there, and the data are plentiful.  The Pope and others have hundreds of studies to investigate and ample data to analyze if they want to show us some scientific evidence to back up their claim.  </p>
<p>When the Pope puts together controlled scientific studies to back up his claim, then maybe his remarks will be worth considering.  Until then, to encourage safe sex practices spring for some education (for example, why aids spreads and how to prevent it) and offer behavioral skills training (an aspect of that would be condom use:  "here's a condom, this is how to use it").</p>
<p>We'd be horrified if doctors prescribed medication with no data/evidence to support its efficacy.  We'd be outraged if psychologists made up or used ineffective therapies to treat mentally ill individuals.  Thus, we should be equally disgusted by the Pope's prescription of (ineffective) abstinence-only teaching.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommykey</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/03/catholicism-kills.html#comment-45227</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommykey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=985#comment-45227</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;And I hope that illustrates for everyone the problems that arise when matters of sexual and reproductive health are dictated to the world&#039;s poorest women by a bunch of celibate old men who don&#039;t know the first thing about basic women&#039;s physiology.&lt;/em&gt;

Ingrid, getting advice on human sexuality from a priest is like consulting a stone age tribesman in the rain forest on automobile maintenance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>And I hope that illustrates for everyone the problems that arise when matters of sexual and reproductive health are dictated to the world's poorest women by a bunch of celibate old men who don't know the first thing about basic women's physiology.</em></p>
<p>Ingrid, getting advice on human sexuality from a priest is like consulting a stone age tribesman in the rain forest on automobile maintenance.</p>
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