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	<title>Comments on: Catholicism&#039;s Hollow Claims of Moral Authority</title>
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		<title>By: Yahzi</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47515</link>
		<dc:creator>Yahzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 06:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47515</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Brian&quot;&gt;Please help me understand why so many homosexuals gravitate toward atheism and are accepted when they violate evolution theory.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Homosexuality does not violate evolutionary theory.

If your choice is between raising 2 kids of your own, or raising 6 of your brother&#039;s kids, guess which one is the evolutionarily more successful strategy?

Or, to put it another way, only the alpha male and female wolves mate; the rest of the pack usually does not. Are you saying wolves violate evolutionary theory?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Brian"><p>Please help me understand why so many homosexuals gravitate toward atheism and are accepted when they violate evolution theory.</p></blockquote>
<p>Homosexuality does not violate evolutionary theory.</p>
<p>If your choice is between raising 2 kids of your own, or raising 6 of your brother's kids, guess which one is the evolutionarily more successful strategy?</p>
<p>Or, to put it another way, only the alpha male and female wolves mate; the rest of the pack usually does not. Are you saying wolves violate evolutionary theory?</p>
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		<title>By: OMGF</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47481</link>
		<dc:creator>OMGF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 15:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47481</guid>
		<description>Brian,
&lt;blockquote&gt;Why do atheists argue the bible so much or even at all.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Because so many people actually believe in the myths related in it and try to foist it upon others or commit horrible deeds (like in the OP) because of it or use it as a shield when they do commit horrible deeds.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Why even use the word A-THEIST, when humanist would be more distinctive.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Humanists and atheists are not necessarily the same thing.
&lt;blockquote&gt;This is 2009 the debate is over...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, it is, and the theists lost.  Now, we just need to get the theists to recognize that.
&lt;blockquote&gt;What are the main complaints from atheists.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&quot;Complaints?&quot;  Nice try.
&lt;blockquote&gt;And what other beliefs do atheists detest in christians.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&quot;Detest?&quot;  Nice try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<blockquote><p>Why do atheists argue the bible so much or even at all.</p></blockquote>
<p>Because so many people actually believe in the myths related in it and try to foist it upon others or commit horrible deeds (like in the OP) because of it or use it as a shield when they do commit horrible deeds.</p>
<blockquote><p>Why even use the word A-THEIST, when humanist would be more distinctive.</p></blockquote>
<p>Humanists and atheists are not necessarily the same thing.</p>
<blockquote><p>This is 2009 the debate is over...</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, it is, and the theists lost.  Now, we just need to get the theists to recognize that.</p>
<blockquote><p>What are the main complaints from atheists.</p></blockquote>
<p>"Complaints?"  Nice try.</p>
<blockquote><p>And what other beliefs do atheists detest in christians.</p></blockquote>
<p>"Detest?"  Nice try.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bowen</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47478</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bowen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 09:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47478</guid>
		<description>Brian&lt;blockquote&gt;Good grief get over it and get on with LIFE !&lt;/blockquote&gt;Which is somewhat the point! The OP is about the hypocrisy of the Catholic church in abusing children on one hand and condemning atheists on the other. Although a secular children&#039;s institution may well have immoral individuals working within it, only a religious one could get away with being so systematically evil for so long. Only the religious could think abuse is &quot;good for the soul&quot;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Please help me understand why so many homosexuals gravitate toward atheism and are accepted when they violate evolution theory.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Not really on topic but I think there are two fallacious assumptions here. One as Tommykey says is that gays are not obviously any more atheist than any other segment of society. The other is that homosexuality does not have a &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3735668.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Darwinian Explanation&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian<br />
<blockquote>Good grief get over it and get on with LIFE !</p></blockquote>
<p>Which is somewhat the point! The OP is about the hypocrisy of the Catholic church in abusing children on one hand and condemning atheists on the other. Although a secular children's institution may well have immoral individuals working within it, only a religious one could get away with being so systematically evil for so long. Only the religious could think abuse is "good for the soul"</p>
<blockquote><p>Please help me understand why so many homosexuals gravitate toward atheism and are accepted when they violate evolution theory.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not really on topic but I think there are two fallacious assumptions here. One as Tommykey says is that gays are not obviously any more atheist than any other segment of society. The other is that homosexuality does not have a <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3735668.stm" rel="nofollow">Darwinian Explanation</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Leum</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47458</link>
		<dc:creator>Leum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 04:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47458</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;P.S. What do atheists think about war, criminals, morality, capitalism, justice, self evident truths &amp; natural laws.&lt;/i&gt;

Atheists are a wide and varied group, who can boast (or shamefully admit) to including &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ayn Rand&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Karl Marx&lt;/a&gt;. As such, we can only speak of what &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; atheists believe. If you want to know what Ebon believes, I suggest searching the archives of &lt;i&gt;Daylight Atheism&lt;/i&gt; and its parent site, &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ebonmusings.org/&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ebon Musings&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;.

Some articles that may be interest to you are &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/carrot&amp;stick.html&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Ineffable Carrot and the Infinite Stick&lt;/a&gt;,&quot; &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/ruletheworld.html&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rule the World&lt;/a&gt;,&quot; and Ebon&#039;s running series &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.daylightatheism.org/series/on-the-morality-of&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;On the Morality of:&lt;/a&gt;.&quot;

But that&#039;s just one atheist. There&#039;re plenty who disagree with Ebon, some of them even post comments here. Atheism can never act as anything more than a foundation (or a clearing of rotten foundation), and the structures built upon it are as many and varied as those built upon religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>P.S. What do atheists think about war, criminals, morality, capitalism, justice, self evident truths &amp; natural laws.</i></p>
<p>Atheists are a wide and varied group, who can boast (or shamefully admit) to including <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand" title="" rel="nofollow">Ayn Rand</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx" title="" rel="nofollow">Karl Marx</a>. As such, we can only speak of what <i>some</i> atheists believe. If you want to know what Ebon believes, I suggest searching the archives of <i>Daylight Atheism</i> and its parent site, <i><a href="http://www.ebonmusings.org/" title="" rel="nofollow">Ebon Musings</a></i>.</p>
<p>Some articles that may be interest to you are "<a href="http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/carrot&amp;stick.html" title="" rel="nofollow">The Ineffable Carrot and the Infinite Stick</a>," "<a href="http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/ruletheworld.html" title="" rel="nofollow">Rule the World</a>," and Ebon's running series "<a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/series/on-the-morality-of" rel="nofollow">On the Morality of:</a>."</p>
<p>But that's just one atheist. There're plenty who disagree with Ebon, some of them even post comments here. Atheism can never act as anything more than a foundation (or a clearing of rotten foundation), and the structures built upon it are as many and varied as those built upon religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommykey</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47457</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommykey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 03:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47457</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Please help me understand why so many homosexuals gravitate toward atheism and are accepted when they violate evolution theory.&lt;/em&gt;

It is my impression that a large segment of gays are religious, and strive for greater acceptance by their churches.

As for evolutionary theory, wtf are you talking about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Please help me understand why so many homosexuals gravitate toward atheism and are accepted when they violate evolution theory.</em></p>
<p>It is my impression that a large segment of gays are religious, and strive for greater acceptance by their churches.</p>
<p>As for evolutionary theory, wtf are you talking about?</p>
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		<title>By: Janet Greene</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47454</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Greene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 01:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47454</guid>
		<description>The problem is deep within the mindset of christianity.  I was abused physically and sexually by my evangelical pastor-father.  He said it was ok as long as he didn&#039;t kill me - that would be wrong.  It was only my body being abused, but it was to save my eternal soul.  This is the reasoning of christians.  Protestants are no better.  James Dobson, the power-hungry fundy who advises presidents, wrote in a book that it&#039;s ok to beat children between the age of 18 months and 12 years.  So I guess as long as the children in your article were between those ages, god condones it.  It&#039;s unbelievably SICK.  And the churches, even when they condemn the specific behaviour, don&#039;t get to the root of the problem so it continues.  That is the concept that the soul is separate from the body, and that any means to &quot;lead people to christ&quot; is acceptable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is deep within the mindset of christianity.  I was abused physically and sexually by my evangelical pastor-father.  He said it was ok as long as he didn't kill me - that would be wrong.  It was only my body being abused, but it was to save my eternal soul.  This is the reasoning of christians.  Protestants are no better.  James Dobson, the power-hungry fundy who advises presidents, wrote in a book that it's ok to beat children between the age of 18 months and 12 years.  So I guess as long as the children in your article were between those ages, god condones it.  It's unbelievably SICK.  And the churches, even when they condemn the specific behaviour, don't get to the root of the problem so it continues.  That is the concept that the soul is separate from the body, and that any means to "lead people to christ" is acceptable.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47445</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 19:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47445</guid>
		<description>What are the main complaints from atheists.

God does not exist.
There is no life after death.
Evolution is the only explaination allowed.
A history of church oppression.
Christians that are blithering Idiots.

Please help me understand why so many homosexuals gravitate toward atheism and are accepted when they violate evolution theory.

And what other beliefs do atheists detest in christians.
P.S. What do atheists think about war, criminals, morality, capitalism, justice, self evident truths &amp; natural laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are the main complaints from atheists.</p>
<p>God does not exist.<br />
There is no life after death.<br />
Evolution is the only explaination allowed.<br />
A history of church oppression.<br />
Christians that are blithering Idiots.</p>
<p>Please help me understand why so many homosexuals gravitate toward atheism and are accepted when they violate evolution theory.</p>
<p>And what other beliefs do atheists detest in christians.<br />
P.S. What do atheists think about war, criminals, morality, capitalism, justice, self evident truths &amp; natural laws.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47444</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 19:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47444</guid>
		<description>Why do atheists argue the bible so much or even at all. Why even use the word A-THEIST, when humanist would be more distinctive. Murder is bad, stealing is bad, lieing is bad, abusing your spouse physically,emotionally, monitarily, &amp; sexually is bad, the mere idea of morality is at the entire heart of the debate. Bad is bad and good is good period and end of the arguement, But not of the story. All governments have laws that if not adheared to punishment will follow and all wars are fought by groups of men that claim religiosity that is false and christians along with atheists are fooled into going along with them. God has nothing to do with anything that causes problems on earth people are and to argue over weather or not god exists is proof that atheists are very foolish people especially when both sides have so much common ground to stand on and form a more stablized world because of common beliefs. This is 2009 the debate is over and god himself will step aside because we all have free will, so what if you believe when you die the BULB is burned out and when I die I move on to something else. Good grief get over it and get on with LIFE !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do atheists argue the bible so much or even at all. Why even use the word A-THEIST, when humanist would be more distinctive. Murder is bad, stealing is bad, lieing is bad, abusing your spouse physically,emotionally, monitarily, &amp; sexually is bad, the mere idea of morality is at the entire heart of the debate. Bad is bad and good is good period and end of the arguement, But not of the story. All governments have laws that if not adheared to punishment will follow and all wars are fought by groups of men that claim religiosity that is false and christians along with atheists are fooled into going along with them. God has nothing to do with anything that causes problems on earth people are and to argue over weather or not god exists is proof that atheists are very foolish people especially when both sides have so much common ground to stand on and form a more stablized world because of common beliefs. This is 2009 the debate is over and god himself will step aside because we all have free will, so what if you believe when you die the BULB is burned out and when I die I move on to something else. Good grief get over it and get on with LIFE !</p>
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		<title>By: Scotlyn</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47432</link>
		<dc:creator>Scotlyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 08:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47432</guid>
		<description>The lesson here is about power.  Power corrupts.  Power does what it likes.  The church had almost absolute power in Ireland in years gone by.  Now it doesn&#039;t, which is why we have reached this moment of truth now, and could not have done before this.  I have lived both in Ireland and in the US over the past 20 years, and I find that the general social tone in Ireland is of a society on the way to becoming increasingly secular, whereas, in the US, it has been possible to feel that the general social trend was towards increasing religious influence in public life. 

However, just because religion wanes in its power to inspire fear and an unwillingness to question its dark heart, does not mean that there are not other areas of life in which power still hides darkness behind veils of secrecy.  US president Obama, for example, has elected to continue to prop up with secrecy, the dark heart of rape and abuse that has taken place, with official sanction and protection, in detainee centres throughout the US&#039;s international sphere of armed influence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lesson here is about power.  Power corrupts.  Power does what it likes.  The church had almost absolute power in Ireland in years gone by.  Now it doesn't, which is why we have reached this moment of truth now, and could not have done before this.  I have lived both in Ireland and in the US over the past 20 years, and I find that the general social tone in Ireland is of a society on the way to becoming increasingly secular, whereas, in the US, it has been possible to feel that the general social trend was towards increasing religious influence in public life. </p>
<p>However, just because religion wanes in its power to inspire fear and an unwillingness to question its dark heart, does not mean that there are not other areas of life in which power still hides darkness behind veils of secrecy.  US president Obama, for example, has elected to continue to prop up with secrecy, the dark heart of rape and abuse that has taken place, with official sanction and protection, in detainee centres throughout the US's international sphere of armed influence.</p>
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		<title>By: OMGF</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47415</link>
		<dc:creator>OMGF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 18:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47415</guid>
		<description>Rebecca,
&lt;blockquote&gt;But that is completely contrary to what the church teaches. NOBODY in any of the mainstream churches would begin to claim that having suffering inflicted upon an innocent child is good for them or would lead them to heaven. Likewise the abuser.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Church teachings are notorious for being interpreted the way that the interpreter wants them to read for one.  Secondly, Mother Theresa herself claimed that suffering is good for the soul and helps one get to heaven (which is partly why her clinics were so abhorrent).  It&#039;s not a leap to think that causing suffering in others might be seen by some as helpful in getting another to heaven, and that which helps save another could easily be seen as good in itself.

Also, next time read the OP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebecca,</p>
<blockquote><p>But that is completely contrary to what the church teaches. NOBODY in any of the mainstream churches would begin to claim that having suffering inflicted upon an innocent child is good for them or would lead them to heaven. Likewise the abuser.</p></blockquote>
<p>Church teachings are notorious for being interpreted the way that the interpreter wants them to read for one.  Secondly, Mother Theresa herself claimed that suffering is good for the soul and helps one get to heaven (which is partly why her clinics were so abhorrent).  It's not a leap to think that causing suffering in others might be seen by some as helpful in getting another to heaven, and that which helps save another could easily be seen as good in itself.</p>
<p>Also, next time read the OP.</p>
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		<title>By: What do you say when an atheist sneezes? &#171; What do you say when an atheist sneezes?</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47406</link>
		<dc:creator>What do you say when an atheist sneezes? &#171; What do you say when an atheist sneezes?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 13:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47406</guid>
		<description>[...] times we are demonized on the news, at the pulpit, and in statements from the (former) president or the Vatican.  Some have said that we are the last minority that most others find it acceptable to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] times we are demonized on the news, at the pulpit, and in statements from the (former) president or the Vatican.  Some have said that we are the last minority that most others find it acceptable to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Domyan</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/catholicisms-hollow-claims.html#comment-47404</link>
		<dc:creator>Domyan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 07:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1033#comment-47404</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I liked your insert and yes, the comments by Clifford Longley are very disarming. But I am plagued by an annoying sense that he is simply inviting me onto the lip of some slippery slope. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Well, it was not really that bad, if you consider the intended audience. Most of the theists were so long shielded from reason that for things to make sense to them, God must play a central part. Apparently, most of the Christians currently believe that atheists denounce God because they want to sin or are too arrogant to believe in anyone smarter than they are. I much prefer this notion that atheists are chosen by God to add variety to the world and even some virtue that would otherwise be lacking. Don&#039;t get me wrong, I still find the explanation ridiculous but I wouldn&#039;t mind theists believing it as it would be a small step in a right direction. It is really hard for us to change anything is everything we say is dismissed out of hand because it was uttered by those evil God-haters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I liked your insert and yes, the comments by Clifford Longley are very disarming. But I am plagued by an annoying sense that he is simply inviting me onto the lip of some slippery slope. </p></blockquote>
<p>Well, it was not really that bad, if you consider the intended audience. Most of the theists were so long shielded from reason that for things to make sense to them, God must play a central part. Apparently, most of the Christians currently believe that atheists denounce God because they want to sin or are too arrogant to believe in anyone smarter than they are. I much prefer this notion that atheists are chosen by God to add variety to the world and even some virtue that would otherwise be lacking. Don't get me wrong, I still find the explanation ridiculous but I wouldn't mind theists believing it as it would be a small step in a right direction. It is really hard for us to change anything is everything we say is dismissed out of hand because it was uttered by those evil God-haters.</p>
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