Comments on: The Founders Wept: George W. Bush's Faith-Based War http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:35:23 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Janet Greene http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47453 Janet Greene Sat, 30 May 2009 01:30:29 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47453 It seems like the more outrageous the acts, the more likely they are to get away with it. Clinton was almost impeached for getting a BJ in the oval office. Bush/Cheney literally murdered over 100,000 people, Americans, Iraqi's, etc. Plus all the devastation to the troops who who make it home - many become physically and mentally ill, and can never function normally again. And they did this to line their own pockets! It's so transparent. Then they used the constitution of the US as though they were suggestions. They wiretapped. Tortured. Lied over and over and over to the country, and thier own colleagues. They ignored the dying people in New Orleans after Katrina - how much blood on their hands there? WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE NOT IN PRISON????????? If I break into a convenience store and steal a chocolate bar, I'll do time. What is wrong with people? See Vincent Bugliosi's book on CHARGING AND CONVICTING THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION FOR MURDER AND TREASON. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vincent-bugliosi/the-prosecution-of-george_b_102427.html It seems like the more outrageous the acts, the more likely they are to get away with it. Clinton was almost impeached for getting a BJ in the oval office. Bush/Cheney literally murdered over 100,000 people, Americans, Iraqi's, etc. Plus all the devastation to the troops who who make it home - many become physically and mentally ill, and can never function normally again. And they did this to line their own pockets! It's so transparent. Then they used the constitution of the US as though they were suggestions. They wiretapped. Tortured. Lied over and over and over to the country, and thier own colleagues. They ignored the dying people in New Orleans after Katrina - how much blood on their hands there? WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE NOT IN PRISON????????? If I break into a convenience store and steal a chocolate bar, I'll do time. What is wrong with people? See Vincent Bugliosi's book on CHARGING AND CONVICTING THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION FOR MURDER AND TREASON. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vincent-bugliosi/the-prosecution-of-george_b_102427.html

]]> By: Andrew http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47314 Andrew Fri, 22 May 2009 03:01:09 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47314 Fair enough. Though the Christ my thesis is based on some shaky assumptions, and streaching for parrallells where only a superficial resemblance exists. Fair enough. Though the Christ my thesis is based on some shaky assumptions, and streaching for parrallells where only a superficial resemblance exists.

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47312 Ebonmuse Fri, 22 May 2009 00:51:10 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47312 He probably isn't, but that's irrelevant to the question of whether the ideas themselves have merit. He probably isn't, but that's irrelevant to the question of whether the ideas themselves have merit.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47310 Andrew Fri, 22 May 2009 00:35:11 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47310 Let me ask you this: if Peter Joseph is so uncritical to accept the 9/11 'truth' movements claims(and might I add the craziest versions of those), and the stuff about the Federal Reserve secretly running the earth, why should you think he was any more critical in his 'religious' ideas? Let me ask you this: if Peter Joseph is so uncritical to accept the 9/11 'truth' movements claims(and might I add the craziest versions of those), and the stuff about the Federal Reserve secretly running the earth, why should you think he was any more critical in his 'religious' ideas?

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47306 Ebonmuse Thu, 21 May 2009 22:51:41 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47306 Although I haven't seen <i>Zeitgeist</i> myself, I'm pleased that it presents a sympathetic treatment of Jesus mythicism. On the other hand, I'm definitely not too pleased with its embrace of <a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/series/loose-marbles/" rel="nofollow">9/11 conspiracy theories</a> and other historical revisionist nonsense. Although I haven't seen Zeitgeist myself, I'm pleased that it presents a sympathetic treatment of Jesus mythicism. On the other hand, I'm definitely not too pleased with its embrace of 9/11 conspiracy theories and other historical revisionist nonsense.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47301 Andrew Thu, 21 May 2009 19:06:13 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47301 I LOVE Zeitgeist, its the funniest comedy ever! I LOVE Zeitgeist, its the funniest comedy ever!

]]> By: kpdwarrior http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47295 kpdwarrior Thu, 21 May 2009 15:42:42 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47295 I will check out The Family, it sounds fascinating, and I am curious to see how much it coincides with a movie that I saw about two years ago and which served as the impetus for my wake-up call and subsequent resolve to embrace free thinking. If you haven't heard of it, please check out Zeitgeist, The Movie, which can be found at zeitgeistmovie.com. The Addendum is the sequel. I had been aware of about 80% of the information presented, but seeing that additional 20% on religion (stuff they didn't teach me in sunday school) and the way director Peter Joseph connected the dots after that... well, it blew my mind wide open. I'll be intereseted to see what parallels, if any exist between the book and Zeitgeist, which, btw, is German and translates as "Spirit of the Times." AS a model for testing against past and current events, I think it hits pretty close to the truth in broad outline if not in some of the details. I will check out The Family, it sounds fascinating, and I am curious to see how much it coincides with a movie that I saw about two years ago and which served as the impetus for my wake-up call and subsequent resolve to embrace free thinking. If you haven't heard of it, please check out Zeitgeist, The Movie, which can be found at zeitgeistmovie.com. The Addendum is the sequel. I had been aware of about 80% of the information presented, but seeing that additional 20% on religion (stuff they didn't teach me in sunday school) and the way director Peter Joseph connected the dots after that... well, it blew my mind wide open. I'll be intereseted to see what parallels, if any exist between the book and Zeitgeist, which, btw, is German and translates as "Spirit of the Times." AS a model for testing against past and current events, I think it hits pretty close to the truth in broad outline if not in some of the details.

]]> By: LindaJoy http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47285 LindaJoy Wed, 20 May 2009 15:40:10 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47285 If any of you had read The Family by Jeff Sharlet, you would see that our government has been an active theocracy since just after Roosevelt. A significant portion of our congress has been making policy decisions based upon what "God" tells them in their prayer cells, which meet in the halls of our government every day. The head of the organization, Doug Coe, is so powerful that ambassadors from other countries meet with him before they meet with the President of the United States. I highly suggest reading this book. It's a fascinating history of the evangelical movement in this country. Plus, it explains how the evangelicals have taken over our military- they have had support at the highest levels. Our top military leaders and the CEO's of major oil, and military contracting industries are all either members of the "Family" or "Fellowship", or supporters of this group. Check it out. If any of you had read The Family by Jeff Sharlet, you would see that our government has been an active theocracy since just after Roosevelt. A significant portion of our congress has been making policy decisions based upon what "God" tells them in their prayer cells, which meet in the halls of our government every day. The head of the organization, Doug Coe, is so powerful that ambassadors from other countries meet with him before they meet with the President of the United States. I highly suggest reading this book. It's a fascinating history of the evangelical movement in this country. Plus, it explains how the evangelicals have taken over our military- they have had support at the highest levels. Our top military leaders and the CEO's of major oil, and military contracting industries are all either members of the "Family" or "Fellowship", or supporters of this group. Check it out.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47281 Andrew Wed, 20 May 2009 03:35:26 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47281 This sounds too conspiricy theory-ish to me. I dont see how this at all suggests that Bush thought the Bible had coded messages for him to go to war. This sounds too conspiricy theory-ish to me. I dont see how this at all suggests that Bush thought the Bible had coded messages for him to go to war.

]]> By: KShep http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47278 KShep Tue, 19 May 2009 23:13:00 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47278 If my memory is correct, Dubya wasn't all that religious when he stole the 2000 election. It was during the following year or so when he really got into it. I remember stories about how the Repubs had hijacked the xtian vote with a steaming pile of phony piety, and Dubya was among them. Someone had pointed out that it was interesting how many evangelicals thought Bush, who rarely attended church, was a "godly man" but Clinton and Gore, both regular churchgoers, were not. I'm thinking of the usual image of Bush during the last few years of his presidency---always smiling (some would say smirking) and upbeat, convinced of his own greatness. Remember the "60 Minutes" interview, where he famously couldn't think of a single mistake he'd made during his reign? That stupid grin (okay, smirk) on his face said it all----it looked like the same fake, trying-to-look-knowledgeable-but-really-I'm-just-utterly-clueless smile I've seen pasted on the faces of many a Jehovah's Witness at my front door. Like he was trying to convince himself as much as he was the audience. So it seems we're left with two possible versions of what kind of man Dubya is---he's either a clueless religious dolt who needs help with anything more mentally taxing than tying his shoes, or he's a conniving, deceitful, petty tyrant who enriched himself and his loyal followers while destroying our country. Does it matter which one he is? If my memory is correct, Dubya wasn't all that religious when he stole the 2000 election. It was during the following year or so when he really got into it.

I remember stories about how the Repubs had hijacked the xtian vote with a steaming pile of phony piety, and Dubya was among them. Someone had pointed out that it was interesting how many evangelicals thought Bush, who rarely attended church, was a "godly man" but Clinton and Gore, both regular churchgoers, were not.

I'm thinking of the usual image of Bush during the last few years of his presidency---always smiling (some would say smirking) and upbeat, convinced of his own greatness. Remember the "60 Minutes" interview, where he famously couldn't think of a single mistake he'd made during his reign? That stupid grin (okay, smirk) on his face said it all----it looked like the same fake, trying-to-look-knowledgeable-but-really-I'm-just-utterly-clueless smile I've seen pasted on the faces of many a Jehovah's Witness at my front door. Like he was trying to convince himself as much as he was the audience.

So it seems we're left with two possible versions of what kind of man Dubya is---he's either a clueless religious dolt who needs help with anything more mentally taxing than tying his shoes, or he's a conniving, deceitful, petty tyrant who enriched himself and his loyal followers while destroying our country.

Does it matter which one he is?

]]> By: Thumpalumpacus http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47275 Thumpalumpacus Tue, 19 May 2009 21:41:11 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47275 The saddest part of all is that no one will draw the appropriate conclusion. They will, at most, regret that this bullshit intrusion of religion into our civic life was found out. Indeed, the Pat Robertsons of the country will most likely be delighted that we had such a superstiti -- uh, religious president; and they won't see at all they failure of their own viewpoint. Right now, I'm damned near tears. 20,000 of my brothers-in-arms dead and maimed for this mental illness called religion. The saddest part of all is that no one will draw the appropriate conclusion. They will, at most, regret that this bullshit intrusion of religion into our civic life was found out. Indeed, the Pat Robertsons of the country will most likely be delighted that we had such a superstiti -- uh, religious president; and they won't see at all they failure of their own viewpoint.

Right now, I'm damned near tears. 20,000 of my brothers-in-arms dead and maimed for this mental illness called religion.

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/05/the-founders-wept.html#comment-47257 Ebonmuse Tue, 19 May 2009 01:20:28 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1029#comment-47257 <blockquote>I love Bush-bashing as much as the next person, but allow me to ask: how solid are these charges? I mean, GQ magazine? And I have not myself heard of Robert Draper. Does he have credibility?</blockquote> To address this question, Robert Draper is the Texan journalist who wrote <i>Dead Certain</i>, a chronicle of the Bush administration from 2001 to 2007. Bush administration officials gave him almost unprecedented access to write it: he had six one-on-one interviews with George W. Bush, as well as personal interviews with Laura Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, and Karl Rove. According to the GQ article, he acquired these documents through an (unnamed) administration official whose contact he made as a result of the interviews he did for that book.

I love Bush-bashing as much as the next person, but allow me to ask: how solid are these charges? I mean, GQ magazine? And I have not myself heard of Robert Draper. Does he have credibility?

To address this question, Robert Draper is the Texan journalist who wrote Dead Certain, a chronicle of the Bush administration from 2001 to 2007. Bush administration officials gave him almost unprecedented access to write it: he had six one-on-one interviews with George W. Bush, as well as personal interviews with Laura Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, and Karl Rove. According to the GQ article, he acquired these documents through an (unnamed) administration official whose contact he made as a result of the interviews he did for that book.

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