Comments on: Atheism, Race and Gender http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:09:52 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Leanne http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-65105 Leanne Mon, 18 Apr 2011 06:43:00 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-65105 I'm a working-class woman of Asian and Asian-Hispanic (my mother is a Japanese-Argentinian) heritage. I guess I'm a rarity. It does baffle me that this is such a huge deal. Personally, I could not care less about such trivial things like race or gender, and it would not bother me a bit if 99% of atheists happened to be intersexed Afro-Hispanic minarchists. I'm speaking from personal experiences, but most white atheists I've came across, in general, certainly did not come off as racists or sexists. If an atheist of a minority background feels unwelcomed in the movement due to the high percentage of a certain racial group or gender, then he/she has his/her own biases and prejudices to sort out. I'm a working-class woman of Asian and Asian-Hispanic (my mother is a Japanese-Argentinian) heritage. I guess I'm a rarity.
It does baffle me that this is such a huge deal. Personally, I could not care less about such trivial things like race or gender, and it would not bother me a bit if 99% of atheists happened to be intersexed Afro-Hispanic minarchists. I'm speaking from personal experiences, but most white atheists I've came across, in general, certainly did not come off as racists or sexists. If an atheist of a minority background feels unwelcomed in the movement due to the high percentage of a certain racial group or gender, then he/she has his/her own biases and prejudices to sort out.

]]> By: Andrew T. http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-62182 Andrew T. Wed, 29 Dec 2010 00:04:26 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-62182 I no longer have an active YouTube account, but when I did I tended to be heavy-handed on the "delete" and "ban" links when comments came forth. I'm no fan of censorship, but there wasn't much alternative for keeping the signal-to-noise ratio positive (though I was troubled more by spam than anything else). I no longer have an active YouTube account, but when I did I tended to be heavy-handed on the "delete" and "ban" links when comments came forth. I'm no fan of censorship, but there wasn't much alternative for keeping the signal-to-noise ratio positive (though I was troubled more by spam than anything else).

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-62180 Ebonmuse Tue, 28 Dec 2010 23:00:10 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-62180 Thanks for posting these comments, Velox. It's important that people who don't experience sexism on a routine basis understand what outspoken women often have to deal with - not just from the religious community, where misogyny is the norm, but also from the atheist community, where prejudice is tolerated far too often. As another example of the former, consider <a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/04/filth-based-initiatives.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a>. Outspoken female atheists like Annie Laurie Gaylor routinely receive hate mail that insults them on the basis of their appearance, something that never happens to male atheists no matter how abrasive they are. I tend to think sites like YouTube are especially bad, because the commenting community is so huge that it's almost impossible to apply the kind of moderation standards that would keep out bad behavior. And when bad actors aren't punished, that just encourages more of them - similar to the "broken windows" theory that crime flourishes in a community when there are obvious signs that no one is in charge. Thanks for posting these comments, Velox. It's important that people who don't experience sexism on a routine basis understand what outspoken women often have to deal with - not just from the religious community, where misogyny is the norm, but also from the atheist community, where prejudice is tolerated far too often. As another example of the former, consider this post. Outspoken female atheists like Annie Laurie Gaylor routinely receive hate mail that insults them on the basis of their appearance, something that never happens to male atheists no matter how abrasive they are.

I tend to think sites like YouTube are especially bad, because the commenting community is so huge that it's almost impossible to apply the kind of moderation standards that would keep out bad behavior. And when bad actors aren't punished, that just encourages more of them - similar to the "broken windows" theory that crime flourishes in a community when there are obvious signs that no one is in charge.

]]> By: Steve Bowen http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-62166 Steve Bowen Mon, 27 Dec 2010 22:23:30 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-62166 Yeah Velox way too much talk, not enough tits. Keep trying though... Eeeech now! Have I been around here long enough to have accumulated sufficient irony creds? If not... Yeah Velox way too much talk, not enough tits. Keep trying though...

Eeeech now! Have I been around here long enough to have accumulated sufficient irony creds? If not...

]]> By: Velox http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-62161 Velox Mon, 27 Dec 2010 06:03:09 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-62161 Real quick, wanted to provide an example of what I was talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZchvDcgdJA&feature=related "don't talk so much in your videos. it's distracting my titty watching" is the highest rated comment. There are others like "You what would be a better guide? You sucking my dick..." and "I'm an atheist, and I would like to squirt atheist jism on dem tittaes." Few, if any, respond to these disgusting comments. I dunno, maybe they are just not feeding the trolls? Still... damn but humanity depresses me. Real quick, wanted to provide an example of what I was talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZchvDcgdJA&feature=related

"don't talk so much in your videos. it's distracting my titty watching" is the highest rated comment.

There are others like "You what would be a better guide? You sucking my dick..." and "I'm an atheist, and I would like to squirt atheist jism on dem tittaes."

Few, if any, respond to these disgusting comments. I dunno, maybe they are just not feeding the trolls?

Still... damn but humanity depresses me.

]]> By: Velox http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-62159 Velox Mon, 27 Dec 2010 04:53:35 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-62159 I'm a woman and an atheist. I often post defending evolution or atheism, but I very rarely reveal my gender. There's a few reasons for this: The strictly religious and very conservative say that I am a closet lesbian unhappy with the place god made for me (ie to be subservient to men). I've had a few say that I will never be able to get married with such an attitude. The arguments deteriorate into sexist comments such as "your mouth is only good for cocksucking so stfu" or "you're nothing but an immoral cumguzzling whorebag!!!1!" (actual comments!) The number one reason: Everything almost always deteriorates to "tits out for the lads" and/or "boobs or stfu!" Trying to call one on their ad hoc attacks or sexism often leads to the labels of "feminazi"/"feminist"/"manhater" being tossed around. That's why I don't post videos of myself my Youtube. It's really enough to cause one to lose hope for humanity, which is why I'm glad for this post. :) I realize also that perhaps my experiences may not apply to everyone. I pick odd places to post and mostly out of boredom, on sites such as Youtube and Facebook where one is not exactly likely to encounter an intelligent audience. I'm a woman and an atheist. I often post defending evolution or atheism, but I very rarely reveal my gender. There's a few reasons for this:

The strictly religious and very conservative say that I am a closet lesbian unhappy with the place god made for me (ie to be subservient to men).

I've had a few say that I will never be able to get married with such an attitude.

The arguments deteriorate into sexist comments such as "your mouth is only good for cocksucking so stfu" or "you're nothing but an immoral cumguzzling whorebag!!!1!" (actual comments!)

The number one reason: Everything almost always deteriorates to "tits out for the lads" and/or "boobs or stfu!"

Trying to call one on their ad hoc attacks or sexism often leads to the labels of "feminazi"/"feminist"/"manhater" being tossed around.

That's why I don't post videos of myself my Youtube. It's really enough to cause one to lose hope for humanity, which is why I'm glad for this post. :)

I realize also that perhaps my experiences may not apply to everyone. I pick odd places to post and mostly out of boredom, on sites such as Youtube and Facebook where one is not exactly likely to encounter an intelligent audience.

]]> By: Daylight Atheism > On Sexism and Consciousness-Raising http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-60418 Daylight Atheism > On Sexism and Consciousness-Raising Tue, 19 Oct 2010 00:35:03 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-60418 [...] attitude poses a threat to the atheist movement as a whole, I do think it's extremely important to ensure that everyone feels welcome among us, regardless of race or gender. That's a goal that the atheist movement still needs to devote more [...] [...] attitude poses a threat to the atheist movement as a whole, I do think it's extremely important to ensure that everyone feels welcome among us, regardless of race or gender. That's a goal that the atheist movement still needs to devote more [...]

]]> By: Mema http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-59764 Mema Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:03:31 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-59764 Just a quick question. Nikki your writing style suggested to me that you wish to express your perspective but are not sure if it will be valued. I don't know if this is bigotry on my part - that is, a false assumption. However if this is true, may I ask if this has anything to do with being a woman of color? For example as a woman I sometimes feel like everything with men is a competition but I don't want to compete, and somehow this means my ideas get ignored, so why would I bother, you know, I'm not wanting to be an "ego-maniac" - I just point out flawed thinking when I see it. But I don't know what it's like being of a color other than my own, so what do you think? Does racism add another layer on top of the sexism with the feeling valued issue? Just a quick question. Nikki your writing style suggested to me that you wish to express your perspective but are not sure if it will be valued. I don't know if this is bigotry on my part - that is, a false assumption. However if this is true, may I ask if this has anything to do with being a woman of color? For example as a woman I sometimes feel like everything with men is a competition but I don't want to compete, and somehow this means my ideas get ignored, so why would I bother, you know, I'm not wanting to be an "ego-maniac" - I just point out flawed thinking when I see it. But I don't know what it's like being of a color other than my own, so what do you think? Does racism add another layer on top of the sexism with the feeling valued issue?

]]> By: Rollingforest http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-58118 Rollingforest Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:41:31 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-58118 Wow! I didn't proofread that one :) The third sentence should read "This is despite the fact that, as Progressives, they go out of their way to be sensitive to the needs of women and minorities" Sorry about the confusion. Wow! I didn't proofread that one :) The third sentence should read "This is despite the fact that, as Progressives, they go out of their way to be sensitive to the needs of women and minorities"

Sorry about the confusion.

]]> By: Rollingforest http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-58108 Rollingforest Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:29:14 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-58108 I have to agree with Hypatia and valhar2000. The atheist community, like many Progressive communities, often has a “blame white males” bias when it comes to anything regarding race and gender. This despite the fact that, as progressives, they often go out of their way not to include women and minorities. Compare this to the feminist movement. While the grand majority of feminists are sincere and well-meaning individuals, the movement as a whole does seem to have a tolerance for bigots who would rather spew their hatred of men than contribute to gender equality. Yet in many Progressive circles, pointing this out is taboo. So I think if we are going to work against discrimination, we should do it for everyone, not just the select groups. I have to agree with Hypatia and valhar2000.

The atheist community, like many Progressive communities, often has a “blame white males” bias when it comes to anything regarding race and gender. This despite the fact that, as progressives, they often go out of their way not to include women and minorities.

Compare this to the feminist movement. While the grand majority of feminists are sincere and well-meaning individuals, the movement as a whole does seem to have a tolerance for bigots who would rather spew their hatred of men than contribute to gender equality. Yet in many Progressive circles, pointing this out is taboo.

So I think if we are going to work against discrimination, we should do it for everyone, not just the select groups.

]]> By: Steve Bowen http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-50534 Steve Bowen Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:22:11 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-50534 <blockquote>The atheist community doesn't allow any explicit bigotries?</blockquote>The "atheist community" such as it is does not have have a prohibitive creed against anything (or ant creed at all for that matter) That being said, if the contributors to atheist forums are anything to go by misogyny is not a common trait among us (now religions on the other hand...)

The atheist community doesn't allow any explicit bigotries?

The "atheist community" such as it is does not have have a prohibitive creed against anything (or ant creed at all for that matter) That being said, if the contributors to atheist forums are anything to go by misogyny is not a common trait among us (now religions on the other hand...)

]]> By: Ebonmuse http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/atheism-race-and-gender.html#comment-50532 Ebonmuse Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:11:28 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1131#comment-50532 What are some examples you've witnessed, Aerik? What are some examples you've witnessed, Aerik?

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