Comments on: Poetry Sunday: Hornworm: Autumn Lamentation http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/poetry-sunday-xxix.html NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION. Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:09:52 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Entomologista http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/poetry-sunday-xxix.html#comment-50369 Entomologista Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:56:47 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1132#comment-50369 Great poem! And a potential question in Linnaean Games... Great poem! And a potential question in Linnaean Games...

]]> By: Polly http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/poetry-sunday-xxix.html#comment-50366 Polly Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:13:14 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1132#comment-50366 I can already hear the creationist response: God created them 'specially for man so that they'd stop the worms from destroying our crops, duh! I can already hear the creationist response:
God created them 'specially for man so that they'd stop the worms from destroying our crops, duh!

]]> By: Jennifer A. Burdoo http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/poetry-sunday-xxix.html#comment-50361 Jennifer A. Burdoo Mon, 21 Sep 2009 02:49:03 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1132#comment-50361 Eep. One of the finest examples of sarcasm I've seen yet. Eep. One of the finest examples of sarcasm I've seen yet.

]]> By: Alex Weaver http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/poetry-sunday-xxix.html#comment-50358 Alex Weaver Mon, 21 Sep 2009 02:30:36 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1132#comment-50358 This is a bit eerie since we're actually raising hornworms (I've been capturing rather than killing the ones I find on my tomato plants, since they amuse and fascinate my daughter). We've been fortunate in that none of them so far seem to be parasitized, though I've been worried about that. I had been using gallon ziplock bags, with a few small holes punched in the top and a hole through the bottom, tightly sealed with a rubber band around the stalks of the tomato branches I'd removed for them to finish feeding on, with the stalks inserted into a pool of water in the bottom of a re-used cream cheese container. Unfortunately, of the 5 that have so far hit the point in their life cycles where they are programmed to wander away from their food plant and burrow into the soil, 2 managed to force the rubber band open and drown themselves, so I have a different setup now (stripped leaves and caterpillars, but not water, in the cream cheese container, bag around the outside). I think there's a metaphor of some sort in this little wrinkle of their behavior... This is a bit eerie since we're actually raising hornworms (I've been capturing rather than killing the ones I find on my tomato plants, since they amuse and fascinate my daughter). We've been fortunate in that none of them so far seem to be parasitized, though I've been worried about that. I had been using gallon ziplock bags, with a few small holes punched in the top and a hole through the bottom, tightly sealed with a rubber band around the stalks of the tomato branches I'd removed for them to finish feeding on, with the stalks inserted into a pool of water in the bottom of a re-used cream cheese container. Unfortunately, of the 5 that have so far hit the point in their life cycles where they are programmed to wander away from their food plant and burrow into the soil, 2 managed to force the rubber band open and drown themselves, so I have a different setup now (stripped leaves and caterpillars, but not water, in the cream cheese container, bag around the outside). I think there's a metaphor of some sort in this little wrinkle of their behavior...

]]> By: Bob Carlson http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/poetry-sunday-xxix.html#comment-50356 Bob Carlson Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:50:42 +0000 http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1132#comment-50356 Of course, "That Great Worm in the Sky" is evolution. Mr. Kuntz's "flies" are not flies at all but rather a species of parasitic Hymenoptera called Cotesia congregata, and a photo of an afflicted hornworm is here: http://tinyurl.com/n8b6un Cotesia congregata is a member of the family Braconidae, which shares common ancestry with the family Ichneumonidae in the way that we share common ancestry with chimps, although, of course, the split between the Braconidae and Ichneumonidae is vastly more ancient. Concerning the Ichneumonidae, Darwin made the following statement in a letter to Asa Gray: "I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidae with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of Caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice." I wonder what Darwin might have said about the false cocoons that are spun by a few species Ichneumonidae of the genus Hyposoter. These species spin their real cocoons inside the skins of hairy caterpillars, and the cocoon keeps the skin of the caterpillar firmly inflated. On the outside of the skin, the Hyposoter larva spins a small false cocoon that is quite similar in appearance to the cocoons of braconid wasps of the genus Cotesia. The false cocoon is left open at one end, and resembles a Cotesia cocoon from which the Cotesia adult has already emerged. The empty false cocoon is presumed to be a mechanism that helps to protect the Hyposoter individual in the real cocoon from being attacked by hyperparasitic wasps Now, I suppose that a creationist could provide us amusement by arguing that God took a particular fancy for these few species of Hyposoter and wanted to protect them from the ravages of hyperparasitic species of Ichneumonidae and Chalcidoidea, but rational folks will see it as a fascinating example of how evolution works. Bob Carlson Of course, "That Great Worm in the Sky" is evolution. Mr. Kuntz's "flies" are not flies at all but rather a species of parasitic Hymenoptera called Cotesia congregata, and a photo of an afflicted hornworm is here:

http://tinyurl.com/n8b6un

Cotesia congregata is a member of the family Braconidae, which shares common ancestry with the family Ichneumonidae in the way that we share common ancestry with chimps, although, of course, the split between the Braconidae and Ichneumonidae is vastly more ancient. Concerning the Ichneumonidae, Darwin made the following statement in a letter to Asa Gray: "I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidae with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of Caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice."

I wonder what Darwin might have said about the false cocoons that are spun by a few species Ichneumonidae of the genus Hyposoter. These species spin their real cocoons inside the skins of hairy caterpillars, and the cocoon keeps the skin of the caterpillar firmly inflated. On the outside of the skin, the Hyposoter larva spins a small false cocoon that is quite similar in appearance to the cocoons of braconid wasps of the genus Cotesia. The false cocoon is left open at one end, and resembles a Cotesia cocoon from which the Cotesia adult has already emerged. The empty false cocoon is presumed to be a mechanism that helps to protect the Hyposoter individual in the real cocoon from being attacked by hyperparasitic wasps

Now, I suppose that a creationist could provide us amusement by arguing that God took a particular fancy for these few species of Hyposoter and wanted to protect them from the ravages of hyperparasitic species of Ichneumonidae and Chalcidoidea, but rational folks will see it as a fascinating example of how evolution works.

Bob Carlson

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