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	<title>Comments on: There Is No God-Shaped Hole</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: If You Use That Analogy One More Time, I&#8217;ll Shove a Birkenstock in Your God-shaped Hole &#8212; The Gaytheists</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50484</link>
		<dc:creator>If You Use That Analogy One More Time, I&#8217;ll Shove a Birkenstock in Your God-shaped Hole &#8212; The Gaytheists</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50484</guid>
		<description>[...] procrastinating from my job search today, and I came across an article on Daylight Atheism called There is No God Shaped Hole. Well, I will have to tell you that hearing the same fucking analogies all the time when I tell [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] procrastinating from my job search today, and I came across an article on Daylight Atheism called There is No God Shaped Hole. Well, I will have to tell you that hearing the same fucking analogies all the time when I tell [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Confident Atheists As Happy As Confident Theists &#171; Camels With Hammers</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50483</link>
		<dc:creator>Confident Atheists As Happy As Confident Theists &#171; Camels With Hammers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50483</guid>
		<description>[...] Confident Atheists As Happy As Confident&#160;Theists  Intriguing study results summed up by Daylight Atheism: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Confident Atheists As Happy As Confident&nbsp;Theists  Intriguing study results summed up by Daylight Atheism: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica Sideways</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50477</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica Sideways</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50477</guid>
		<description>Sure, there&#039;s a God shaped hole, where do you think the theists have their head stuck up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, there's a God shaped hole, where do you think the theists have their head stuck up?</p>
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		<title>By: Slater</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50447</link>
		<dc:creator>Slater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50447</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link, EdSG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, EdSG.</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50403</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>All this is basic Maslow, of course.  (Why didn&#039;t his parents name him Lazlo?  What an opportunity missed!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this is basic Maslow, of course.  (Why didn't his parents name him Lazlo?  What an opportunity missed!)</p>
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		<title>By: EdSG</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50398</link>
		<dc:creator>EdSG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50398</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Slater&quot;&gt;This is pure speculation, but is it possible that a high level of social security at least partly eliminates the need for security through God?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In the &lt;a href=&quot;http://ffrf.org/radio/podcast/archives/2009.php&quot; title=&quot;Gregory S. Paul, Universal Healthcare Promotes Freethought&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;September 19th episode of Freethought Radio&lt;/a&gt; Gregory S. Paul argues that that is the case: lack of social safety nets correlated with religiosity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Slater"><p>This is pure speculation, but is it possible that a high level of social security at least partly eliminates the need for security through God?</p></blockquote>
<p>In the <a href="http://ffrf.org/radio/podcast/archives/2009.php" title="Gregory S. Paul, Universal Healthcare Promotes Freethought" rel="nofollow">September 19th episode of Freethought Radio</a> Gregory S. Paul argues that that is the case: lack of social safety nets correlated with religiosity.</p>
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		<title>By: Slater</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50396</link>
		<dc:creator>Slater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50396</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;mikespeir&quot;&gt;It&#039;s not a God-shaped hole, it&#039;s a security-shaped hole.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s actually an interesting point. Denmark, as I mentioned earlier, is a socialist country. You always know that if you get sick, you can see a doctor, get operations, pacemakers, etc. for free, no matter who you are. You know that if you lose your job or your home, the government will give you a place to live and money to live off. You know if you CAN&#039;T work any more, due to any physical or mental disability, the government will help you get an easy job or a pension. As a kid or parent you know almost all schools and higher educations are completely free, so no need to worry about social heritage etc.
Same thing in Sweden and Norway, which are also very high on atheism.

- This is pure speculation, but is it possible that a high level of social security at least partly eliminates the need for security through God?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="mikespeir"><p>It's not a God-shaped hole, it's a security-shaped hole.</p></blockquote>
<p>That's actually an interesting point. Denmark, as I mentioned earlier, is a socialist country. You always know that if you get sick, you can see a doctor, get operations, pacemakers, etc. for free, no matter who you are. You know that if you lose your job or your home, the government will give you a place to live and money to live off. You know if you CAN'T work any more, due to any physical or mental disability, the government will help you get an easy job or a pension. As a kid or parent you know almost all schools and higher educations are completely free, so no need to worry about social heritage etc.<br />
Same thing in Sweden and Norway, which are also very high on atheism.</p>
<p>- This is pure speculation, but is it possible that a high level of social security at least partly eliminates the need for security through God?</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50384</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50384</guid>
		<description>I would be interested to know what Craig thinks of the Pascal argument.  Sadly, not enough to spend a lot of time researching it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be interested to know what Craig thinks of the Pascal argument.  Sadly, not enough to spend a lot of time researching it.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex, FCD</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50383</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex, FCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50383</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;WLC and Pascal would have to fight this one out, I think.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Round. One. Fight!

Anyhow, one might plausibly object that the infinitude of the abyss was rhetorical (the abyss itself is a metaphor), while Pascal actually thought that God was infinite.  That would be an acceptable, if unusual, bit of parallel construction.

And even if WLC and Pascal do contradict each other in terms of infinity denial, is there really a problem in citing both of them in support of an argument?  I, for one, have no problem quoting both Werner &quot;Uncertainty&quot; Heisenberg and Albert &quot;No Dice&quot; Einstein in the same sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>WLC and Pascal would have to fight this one out, I think.</p></blockquote>
<p>Round. One. Fight!</p>
<p>Anyhow, one might plausibly object that the infinitude of the abyss was rhetorical (the abyss itself is a metaphor), while Pascal actually thought that God was infinite.  That would be an acceptable, if unusual, bit of parallel construction.</p>
<p>And even if WLC and Pascal do contradict each other in terms of infinity denial, is there really a problem in citing both of them in support of an argument?  I, for one, have no problem quoting both Werner "Uncertainty" Heisenberg and Albert "No Dice" Einstein in the same sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50382</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50382</guid>
		<description>They can always wiggle, Alex.  They always will.  I could counter that Pascal, being one of the greatest mathematicians of all time, would not have used &quot;infinite&quot; so carelessly.  And besides, if you&#039;ll note my snippet of quote, he wasn&#039;t only talking about a &quot;mental hole&quot; (I suspect he would have objected to calling it that, anyway), he was also calling God &quot;an infinite and immutable object,&quot; something that would fill this &quot;infinite abyss.&quot;  Now, WLC might protest that God isn&#039;t actually infinite, but I sure doubt he would say God is not immutable.  But why would Pascal have used &quot;infinite&quot; figuratively but &quot;immutable&quot; literally?  That&#039;s very poor form.  WLC and Pascal would have to fight this one out, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They can always wiggle, Alex.  They always will.  I could counter that Pascal, being one of the greatest mathematicians of all time, would not have used "infinite" so carelessly.  And besides, if you'll note my snippet of quote, he wasn't only talking about a "mental hole" (I suspect he would have objected to calling it that, anyway), he was also calling God "an infinite and immutable object," something that would fill this "infinite abyss."  Now, WLC might protest that God isn't actually infinite, but I sure doubt he would say God is not immutable.  But why would Pascal have used "infinite" figuratively but "immutable" literally?  That's very poor form.  WLC and Pascal would have to fight this one out, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex, FCD</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50381</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex, FCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50381</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Does the apologist who cites Pascal and William Lane Craig note the contradiction? Pascal says the &quot;hole&quot; is an infinite abyss--which he must, because he already has a Plug in mind: God, who is also, he says, infinite. WLC, on the other hand, in Kalam insists there&#039;s no such thing as an actual infinite--not even God.&lt;/blockquote&gt;The contradiction can be wriggled out of by claiming that Pascal was employing a rhetorical device, much in the same way that somebody might claim &quot;Michael Owen is and &lt;i&gt;infinitely&lt;/i&gt; better striker than Didier Drogba&quot; (if they had never seen either of them play and were fuzzy on what sport we&#039;re talking about).  Pascal, being a mathematician, would have known quite well that you can&#039;t really have an infinite amount of mental hole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Does the apologist who cites Pascal and William Lane Craig note the contradiction? Pascal says the "hole" is an infinite abyss--which he must, because he already has a Plug in mind: God, who is also, he says, infinite. WLC, on the other hand, in Kalam insists there's no such thing as an actual infinite--not even God.</p></blockquote>
<p>The contradiction can be wriggled out of by claiming that Pascal was employing a rhetorical device, much in the same way that somebody might claim "Michael Owen is and <i>infinitely</i> better striker than Didier Drogba" (if they had never seen either of them play and were fuzzy on what sport we're talking about).  Pascal, being a mathematician, would have known quite well that you can't really have an infinite amount of mental hole.</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/09/there-is-no-god-shaped-hole.html#comment-50365</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1129#comment-50365</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s another thought.  The origin of this &quot;God-shaped hole&quot; stuff is Pascal&#039;s Pensee #425.  There, he says this about it:  &quot;...the infinite abyss can only be filled by an infinite and immutable object, that is to say, only by God Himself.&quot;

Does the apologist who cites Pascal and William Lane Craig note the contradiction?  Pascal says the &quot;hole&quot; is an &lt;i&gt;infinite&lt;/i&gt; abyss--which he must, because he already has a Plug in mind: God, who is also, he says, infinite. WLC, on the other hand, in Kalam insists there&#039;s no such thing as an actual infinite--not even God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here's another thought.  The origin of this "God-shaped hole" stuff is Pascal's Pensee #425.  There, he says this about it:  "...the infinite abyss can only be filled by an infinite and immutable object, that is to say, only by God Himself."</p>
<p>Does the apologist who cites Pascal and William Lane Craig note the contradiction?  Pascal says the "hole" is an <i>infinite</i> abyss--which he must, because he already has a Plug in mind: God, who is also, he says, infinite. WLC, on the other hand, in Kalam insists there's no such thing as an actual infinite--not even God.</p>
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